May 16, 2026

Life After Dying 4x, Getting Fired While on a Ventilator, & Still Being Suicidal at 18 Yrs Sober

Life After Dying 4x, Getting Fired While on a Ventilator, & Still Being Suicidal at 18 Yrs Sober
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Frank Parisi flatlined during heart surgery on May 8, 2023. He came back. Twenty-six days later he received the transplant that gave him a second chance — a heart from a nineteen-year-old donor.

He'd grown up in Little Italy, the son of a father tied to organized crime, and spent a decade hooked on opiates before getting sober in 2011. By 2023 he was thirteen years clean, in the gym every day, and doing national marketing for a treatment company.

Four doctors missed what was killing him before someone finally caught the rare pneumonia and sepsis that had moved into his chest. He kept working from the hospital — setting up West Coast Symposium meetings while intubated, dying and coming back four separate times before the new heart arrived.

Then, while he was still on the breathing machine, the company he'd given five years to let him go. The decade-long friends he'd brought into his life started showing up at parties thrown by the people who did it.

Jason Turner's wake-up call came differently. He got sober in 2003, worked at a private boarding school taking kids to Africa and Peru, then moved to Prescott, Arizona, and woke up one day asking where the industry he thought he'd entered had gone.

A three-hundred-pound powerlifter, he walked into a CrossFit gym thinking he'd dominate and got humbled — until an older stranger pulled up next to him mid-run and said, "I got you." He almost cried. Eighteen years into sobriety, he still came close to taking his own life. Abstinence wasn't wellness, and he knew it.

Both men talk with Matt about the conversation Frank had with God on the ventilator, what it means to come back from the dead with a teenager's heart beating in your chest, and why eighteen years of being sober wasn't enough to keep Jason from the edge.

FRANK PARISI is an international bestselling author, keynote speaker, and heart transplant survivor who lives in Austin with his wife Kat and their son Sonny. He published Embrace Abundance in August 2024 on the one-year anniversary of his transplant. He is a managing partner and brand ambassador at Emotion Wellness in San Antonio.

Follow Frank on Instagram @frankparisi2011

Order Embrace Abundance at frank-parisi.com

JASON TURNER is the founder and CEO of Emotion Wellness, an aftercare program in San Antonio built around the idea that the nervous system has to come first. He served ten years in the Air Force, where he trained bomb-sniffing dogs, and is a Pat Tillman Scholar. He has been sober since 2003.

Follow Jason on Instagram @e_motionguy

Learn more about Emotion Wellness at emotionwellness.com

Matt Handy is the founder of Harmony Grove Behavioral Health in Houston, Texas, where their mission is to provide compassionate, evidence-based care for anyone facing addiction, mental health challenges, and co-occurring disorders.

My Last Relapse explores what everyone is thinking but no one is saying about addiction and recovery through conversations with those whose lives have changed.

For anyone disillusioned with traditional recovery and feeling left out, misunderstood, or weighed down by unrealistic expectations, this podcast looks ahead—rejecting the lies and dogma that keep people from imagining life without using.

Got a question for us? Leave us a message or voicemail at mylastrelapse.com

Follow Matt on Instagram @matthew.handy.17

About Harmony Grove Behavioral Health

Harmony Grove delivers outpatient addiction and mental health treatment focused on wellness, creativity, and authentic human connection—providing a supportive space for healing that extends beyond traditional clinical care. Find out more at http://harmonygrovebh.com/

Harmony Grove's IOP in Houston, Texas, is more than a program; it's a lifeline for those ready to take the next step in their recovery. We are ready to meet you where you are and find your unique path to change.

If you're feeling overwhelmed or struggling, you don't have to face it alone. Reaching out for support is a sign of strength, and help is always available. If you or anyone you know needs help, give us a call 24 hours a day at 844-430-3060.

Host: Matthew Handy
Producer: Eva Sheie
Assistant Producers: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Chris Mann
Theme music: Survive The Tide, Machina Aeon
Cover Art: DMARK

My Last Relapse is a production of Kind Creative: kindcreative.com

WEBVTT

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I had a heart transplant in June of June third

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of twenty twenty three. I went to four different doctors,

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was misdiagnosed. I died on the table on May eighth.

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Came back and when I met what I met, I

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said to my wife and through a mentor he always said,

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whenever you go through the hardest of times, you yourself

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to questions, what's the gift of what you're going through

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and what are you gonna become because of it? I'm

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Matt Handy and you're listening to my last relaps. Well,

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thank you guys for coming. You did to drive through that.

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Thanks for having us. Yeah, you know, I really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, Okay,

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So introduce yourself. Frank Parisi, managing partner and brand ambassador

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for Emotion Willness, heart transplant survivor and international best selling author.

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That's right, bro, what are you gonna help my bad dog?

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But I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you.

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So and Jason Turner, founder of Emotion Wellness and person

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in Long Term Recovery and CEO.

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Nope, okay, tell me about emotion.

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Emotion. Well, well, Frank, you just told me that you

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do it better than me, since I want to hear you.

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Emotion wellness. What we are is an aftercare program down

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in San Antonio, Texas fitteens and adolescents that are struggling

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with mental health and substance abuse. We're in a network provider.

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Our business. My business partner, CEO and founder is a

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Pat Tillman Scholar Award winner. He was served our country

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for ten years with the Air Force and helped train

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bomb sniffing dogs. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, it's pretty savage.

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And so our whole program is based around we're kind

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of where we like to say physiology meets psychology, and

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what we are big around nervous system regulation. And so

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when you come into our facility, and you will eventually

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come on.

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Our pod, you'll see as soon as you walk in.

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The man in the arena quote, yeah, for sure, the

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back end Roosevelt, right, Yeah, And that's what we are about.

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Like you come in, it's like step into the arena.

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There greatly and a lot of times people when they

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come into our facility because when you step in the back,

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it's the arena. It's where we hold classes. But most

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people look at it as a CrossFit gym. But it's not.

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We just set things up there for them to step

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into that arena and have that experience. So there's a

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lot of play that goes involved with that education connection.

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And every single day our clients get basically in the

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arena a class where they're gonna a lot of movement's

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going to take place.

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They're also we put.

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In a twenty five person sauna with Himalayan salt. They're

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gonna sauna. Depending on the level that they're at on

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the assessment, they might get a plunge, they might not.

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We may prescribe them the therapists some red light therapy.

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They also get a ninety breath work. We have the

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nine dimensions of Sound. There's so many different techniques that

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they could do within that, and then we do all

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of our and I'm actually getting certified right now. He's certified.

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He's like a level three in Mark England's Uplifted method,

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where we do story work with all of our clients

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to help rewrite the story. So through this process, then

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their nervous system is regulated so that when we are

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sitting in with process group and the individual sessions, there's

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a form of trust, there's a calmness in the nervous

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system so that we're able to do that deep healing

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work with them, you know, and he always says, like,

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what's the best therapy out there, it's the one they're

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going to do. So we set up the environment so

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lovely so that their attention is grab because we're in

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a we're in a society now where attention is everything, dude,

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Like everybody scrolling on the phones and every and that's

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the main thing. And it's hard, you know, you have

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people coming off of and all and all this other

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new stuff that's out there, like we're learning about this

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radom and all this other stuff in the gay stations,

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and it's like to just say, sit and listen. It's hard.

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So we set it up for them so where the

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attentions there, the nervous system regulated, and then we have

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their attention to do the deeper work for sure. The

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other thing that's amazing about our program is that when

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we're not operating as an aftercare program, we are a

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mental health gym. So we have classes five am seven

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thirty am for the community. When they graduate our program,

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they're able to still step into that for the first

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several months and then it's like one hundred dollars membership

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plunged on a come in, do the red light and

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do the group of classes, you know. And we're very

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big with community, Like we do so much with the community.

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We're in that work with Trycare. So we work a

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lot with the veteran population. Like you could pop in

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there on a Monday morning and the Army's working out.

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It's pretty cool.

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You know.

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We do a lot of events, uh, for the community

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for veterans. So we're very community based. Like you know,

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the two greatest interventions is going to be, you know,

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a community and environment man, So we try to create

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it the greatest community environment in San Antonio. Yeah, yeah, man,

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I all.

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I do bro b B minus. We have adults you

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said teams us. We serve teens and adults. And it's

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in lifted, uplifted and lifted yes, well as I'm in

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the class. Yeah, but yeah, pretty good.

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Okay, So give me your take on it.

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It's my answer to years and years of suffering in

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the industry.

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So I.

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Got sober back in three and worked for a private practice,

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private boarding school like not you're not the horror story type.

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It was a really I mean, I got to take

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kids to like Africa and Peru and do some really

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cool stuff and working with it, you know, top five

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or seven percent of the wealth in the nation, but

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getting to see how those type of services really helped

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those kids and creating opportunities to be of service and

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that type of stuff. And then I, like a lot

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of people who suffer from imposter syndrome, I was like, Oh,

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I need to go burn this down and start over

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and see if I can do it again. So I

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took a job in little town in Arizona called Prescott, Arizona.

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Are you familiar with it? Yeah, So got to see

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and a whole another side of treatment managed care, and yeah,

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it was wild. And so I basically woke up one

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day and was like where did I land? And you know,

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I went to school for this and I had a

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really hard time, like a really hard time. And so

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my answer to it came out of an experience that

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I had, which was I walked into a CrossFit gym

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as a powerlifter. I was about three hundred pounds and

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got my ass handed to me. It was the inner critic,

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and you know, I had to call my sponsor at

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the time. But the guy that I had worked for said, dude,

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there's a community there. It's going to be awesome for you,

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you know. So I went into this class and about

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halfway through the workout, a guy had finished ahead of me.

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He was probably twice my age, and he lines up

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next to me on this run and he's like, I

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got you, and I could have started crying. Dude. It

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was just like, like, where did that. I never experienced

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the military. I had a little bit of experience. I

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hadn't had that in so long. I was so hungry

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for us. I said, oh, this is what clients need.

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So then I started doing classes and I thought I

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was just going to be the guy who helped addicts

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get moving. And then I stumbled across a couple of

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research articles, and then I met a guy from Harvard

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psychiatrist who wrote a book that aligned with what I

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was doing, and I went down a rabbit hole. So

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my take is it's really a it's it's rooted in

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evolutionary science, really how we are as humans and what

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really works. I think language like regulation and capacity get

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thrown around a lot, and so.

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Nervous system almost meant to the point where it becomes meaningless.

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Yeah. Absolutely, And I was like, I'm pretty keen to

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like what's happening out in the you know, the the

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world and the way things are being seen. But I said,

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we're going to stick with it. I'm not going to

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try to rewrite reach change the words. We're just going

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to make sure we define them and we talk about

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them in a way that's appropriate. And so I believe

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that it's not really mental health, it's mental fitness. I

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believe treatment is really training. I have an athletic background.

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There's a lot of time in the gym, so reps

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and sets seem to make sense to me. But we

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always add the word intentional, so it needs to be

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intentional reps, right, And so I really wanted to provide

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clients and opportunity to have a completely different experience than

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the oppression and being blamed for the program's lack of

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you know, depth or breath. Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's

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really easy to blame an addict. They're an easy target

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and ICEE why And so I wanted that experience. And

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then I also wanted to basically tell everyone to fuck off,

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in the sense of I'm going to force you to

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level up, Like I really want to make a difference

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you know, And I don't get in people's faces and

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say that. I just we do our things so well

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and on such a big scale. Now other programs have

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to take notice, like they've had to get bigger spaces

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and provide nicer stuff and figure out the lighting. And

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you know, in some program have been like, well we're

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gonna you know, we'll just do coppology good luck, you

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know what I mean. Like this has been a long

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time in the making, and there's a lot of things

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that go behind the scenes. So that's really what it

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was about for me, And it's we don't have it

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all figured out by any stretch. We're but we're making

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a solid effort to you know, continuously grow and that

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kind of stuff as far as in our effectiveness. But

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but physiology first is the is our is my thing,

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Like it's the psychological interventions really can't take hold if

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the nervous system isn't for sure functional, And I feel

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like a lot of programs just they just don't have

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a way to deal with that, Like they don't have

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a I've seen a lot of I've done a lot

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of groups in my twenty some years and and you've

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probably seen this too. In your experience. It's like, how

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many times have you ever been around people and they're like,

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I know exactly the issue. I know exactly what I

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got to do. I just can't seem to do it.

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And to me, that's nervous system, that's the that's a

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capacity issue. Right.

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So yeah, dude, the other sided, I didn't expect the

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conversation to go this way right where we're like the reality.

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Have you seen what's going on with RFK right now? Yep?

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I've seen him at a couple of programs and yeah, yeah.

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So but he just after he went to camel back

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in Arizona, he went back to Congress and he straight

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up said the behavioral health space and the treatment industry

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is reverse incentivized to keep people addicted. Right, he said this,

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I've been clipping it and setting it everywhere, right, and

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it's like the reality I'm in recovery.

209
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Right.

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I was living under a bridge five years ago, right,

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robbed a bank and I was like, okay, probably when

212
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I was facing thirty three and that was the deal, right,

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max exposure was eighty five to life. I was like, okay,

214
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things need to change, right, And I ended up in

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treatment for three years straight. Right, That's how I got

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out of it, right. And then before that though Salvation

217
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Army for seven months, another program for three months, another

218
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program for two months, and like high end twenty eight

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day model treatment, high end twenty eight day model treatment, right,

220
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And it's like, I, uh, the most I tell people

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all the time, the most effective treatment episode that ever

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participated in was that the Salvation Army. And this isn't

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because I'm a Christian, This isn't because whatever, right, It's

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because it was seven months, right. Not only was it

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seven months we worked and then we had the freedom

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to go to meetings, have a sponsor, do all this stuff.

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But foundationally it was enough time, right. And it's like

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the I always ask people and RFK said it kind

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of right where I was like, if if you guys

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know what value based healthcare is, I was like, a

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value based health care was implemented in the behavioral health space.

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How many times do you think people would go to

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treatment if we had to pay for the second one?

234
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Yeah?

235
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Right, they would go once? Right? But if we recognize

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that that's a possibility, why aren't we doing it? Right?

237
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And the reality is this is because the clinical criteria

238
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for reimbursement, right, and we have part of the treatment industry,

239
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we've been like kind of k holed into just checking

240
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off boxes. Right. None of that has to do with physicality,

241
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almost none of it has to do with neurology, and

242
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definitely none of it has to do with community. Right.

243
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And so do you guys know who William White is?

244
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H So William White said Enslain the Dragon, which is

245
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an amazing book, dude, amazing book. You said, Uh, treatment

246
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happens in facilities and recovery happens in community, right, So

247
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then why are we starting the day like the counter

248
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the day they go to treatment, right, when the recovery

249
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really starts the day they leave, right, And so we're

250
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sending all these signals and then you leave treatment. How

251
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many times have you been in treatment? I never went, okay,

252
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how many times you've been in trument six? Okay? Six?

253
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Is that you beat the average? Right? What it averages

254
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out to is ninety eight point five percent of people

255
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will go to residential treatment and averages seven times before

256
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they get their first year sober, not for the rest

257
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of their life, for the first year sober. And what

258
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it devolves it kind of like breaks down what it

259
00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.000
comes down to is point zero one point zero one

260
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seventy five percent of people, So astronomically small amount of

261
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people will go to treatment one time, right. And the

262
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reason why is part of the reason why is the signaling. Right,

263
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you leave treatment, you say bye to the mail, you

264
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all the buddies that you've made, and then you're seeing

265
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your counselor and you're seeing the administrators. And this is

266
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like the checklist on the way out, and every single

267
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person that works there is going to tell you, hey,

268
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if anything happens, come back, right, And so it's like,

269
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are we And then my question is like, are we

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setting people up for failure with the hope that they

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make it back? Right? I think so?

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Right?

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As a client of the industry, I don't think I

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don't have any like professional acclaim to the industry, right, No,

275
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no professional training, no like background in treatment being a professional.

276
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Right.

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I just kind of jumped into this as a client

278
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of the industry. And so the honest truth to that

279
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question most of the time, if people are honest, is

280
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yet we're setting people up for failure. Right. This goes

281
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to like effective programming and stuff like that, what does

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that actually mean? But if we are doing that, then

283
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we are working with the assumption that people will die, right,

284
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that there's going to be a certain amount of people

285
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that go out there and don't make it back. Right.

286
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And then I look at it and go, well, who

287
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are those people? And what is the threshold breaker? Like

288
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what are we okay with? How many people are we

289
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okay with sacrificing? Right, Because what it comes down to

290
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is we say we're in the business saving lives, right,

291
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We're really in the business saving lives that can afford it, right,

292
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And that's a problem because my type of addict, I

293
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was living under a bridge. I couldn't afford quality treatment

294
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I could afford I couldn't afford like quality services, right.

295
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And so the people that we're willing to sacrifice are

296
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the people like me, right. And so my whole philosophy

297
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of care is we widen the door and we lower

298
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the barriers, right. And then on top of that, it's

299
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like my recovery off until I started working out right,

300
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Like I was going in dude, going into meetings, miserable,

301
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.919
coming out even more miserable. Sponsoring people worked with Bubba,

302
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he was my sponsor, right, And I didn't know what

303
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was going on. I didn't know how to fix the

304
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problem because I had gotten rid of the problem, right.

305
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.879
I wasn't getting high. I was doing all the things,

306
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I'd worked, the steps, i'd done all this stuff, and

307
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I was miserable, right. And then I reached out to

308
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my mentor and basically gave him the breakdown, right, And

309
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I'm like, dude, I don't know what to do. He goes, look,

310
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it's like ten o'clock at night here. He was like,

311
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go to sleep, wake up as early as you can,

312
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do some push ups, go to the gym, and then

313
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call me, right. And I just never stopped doing that,

314
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And that's where everything really snapped into place. This whole

315
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thing wouldn't have happened unless I started working out, right.

316
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And so I tell and then I do a lot

317
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of recovery coaching, right, And I tell all the people

318
00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.720
that I work with my goal for you, if this

319
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:57.679
is like an escalating thing to get you into recovery, right,

320
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.120
I'm just trying to get you to go from like

321
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:05.279
a piece like degenerate person to a productive member of society. Right.

322
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:07.839
And the first thing that you have to do, though,

323
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.920
is start working out like you have to. There's no

324
00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.400
it's a non negotiable for like an effective recovery. So yeah, dude,

325
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I fully believe in what you guys are going on

326
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for sure, I just I don't think that it's First

327
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:23.519
of all, it's not incentivized for treatment centers to do that.

328
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:25.839
Right now, it's not not I was driven by So

329
00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.839
the thing is I mean when I say I'm not

330
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:30.640
driven by the money, clearly.

331
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.160
Like for sure, that's not you. That's not You're way.

332
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More money to get this thing started than the average

333
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:37.880
you know, you could start an ile peo for basically

334
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.400
forty k you know what I mean, Like the numbers

335
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.440
low like that in the sense of getting your license

336
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.640
and doing all this stuff. I knew it had to

337
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:48.279
be for other reasons. And people who don't understand it,

338
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.279
they see it from a distance. People like you get it.

339
00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:53.480
You're like, oh shit that those dudes know, Okay, they're

340
00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.920
onto something. But people who don't know that think it's

341
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.160
about a marketing gimmick or it's this or it's that,

342
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.039
and it's like it's like, it's so much more like

343
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.759
people will, you know, talk about the cold plinches or

344
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:06.759
the snic We do have a beautiful sauna in a

345
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.119
facility's but that's like not what we are sure where

346
00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.000
community is a biological intervention. I mean it's tied to

347
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.359
our roots. Like there's so many things about the human

348
00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:21.599
experience that you know, you and I fifty thousand years

349
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:24.480
ago would be this. We're the same unit, Like we

350
00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.559
could go back in time and pull somebody from that

351
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.160
error and bring them here same. It's the same, the

352
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.720
system is the exact same. And yet we have comforted

353
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.559
ourselves and technologically advanced ourselves into a crisis that people

354
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.839
don't want to talk about because it doesn't fit the

355
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:46.240
standard medical industrial complex, which is this idea of not

356
00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.720
being preventative, being very reactive. There's no money in it,

357
00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:51.480
you know what I mean. You can't keep somebody on

358
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.359
a script for I just got done last year. I

359
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:56.119
woke up and couldn't walk. We don't know what happened.

360
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.759
We don't know what my body did. And I went

361
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.920
to a very well known doctor in San Antonio. About

362
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.920
four months it took to get an appointment. I have

363
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.680
a conchier's doc. We do stuff together, and they the

364
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.160
doc literally said, we don't know what's wrong with you,

365
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:19.039
but here's a script for methotrexy and I was like, yeah, no,

366
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.559
and that's not going to happen. So I called my

367
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.160
friend who's a partner in my basically my doc. I said,

368
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.240
I got to do it my way. So I researched peptides,

369
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:29.960
put a protocol together. He helped me with the do sing.

370
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.799
It was a combination of natural herbs, these peptides, and

371
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:35.759
I went five weeks. I went from not being able

372
00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:38.319
to walk or get to the floor to snowboarding, you know,

373
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.880
in in January of this January one this year, and

374
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.880
I'm still on the men, but like, that's not the

375
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.079
model that we live in. You I'm fortunate and then

376
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:49.319
I have the information, you know what I mean, I

377
00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.880
have access, but not everybody has it. You're talking about

378
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.359
the guy under the bridge doesn't have a concier's dock

379
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.680
that you can you know, problem solve with I don't.

380
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:58.119
I don't.

381
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.559
I wanted to enter this space and not play the game,

382
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:03.720
and I have I literally have we we do not.

383
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.559
I don't go to the things. I don't sponsor. I

384
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.400
very seldom. I did a thing for Pay It Forward

385
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.680
because I love Hamilton and Santonio and like what he's

386
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.000
about but I just don't play the game, and so

387
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.200
I'll go every now and then to generally I'm going

388
00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.079
to star shit is what I'm doing, which isn't the

389
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.880
best reason to go, but I'll be the guy in

390
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.359
the room who's like, listen, I get it, Like I

391
00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:25.640
just want to help you guys out, Like you guys

392
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.319
are sitting here kind of like playing with each other

393
00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.759
and brushing each other's hair and talking about how we're

394
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:33.880
out here saving the world, and so we're really not.

395
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.599
And I'm like, if you really think that the person

396
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:38.519
next to you or the guy that you're running to

397
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.240
do hospital runs with is your buddy as far as

398
00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:46.920
business goes, they're not. Like we are equal part competition

399
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.599
and allies. And it's a really fine line. How do

400
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.519
I treat you like an ally in this thing that

401
00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.640
is affecting so many people and also run a business.

402
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.559
It's impossible to enter that space and do it the

403
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.640
way that we think we're doing it or we're telling ourselves, right,

404
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.720
So let's just be honest about the fact that we're not. Yeah,

405
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.200
like we're not. We're using You're gonna send me a

406
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:11.400
guy because he's been to your program four times, su

407
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.039
and or the deductibles too high, or you know, you

408
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:16.400
people are looking for a scholarship or whatever. And I

409
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:17.759
get that, but let's not sit in a room and

410
00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:18.720
talk about how we're.

411
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:19.920
Like saving lives. Yeah.

412
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.039
Yeah, I got a hard I got a hard time with.

413
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.960
The IU too, right, And that's where I ultimately when

414
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.000
I started this podcast, I started interviewing addiction professionals, right,

415
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.839
and then I would go down this line of questioning

416
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.880
and I had people walk out right where because when

417
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:35.720
I get to that, we're not in the business saving lives.

418
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.400
We're in the business saving lives that can afford it. Yeah.

419
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:42.039
I never realized that I was attacking them, right. They

420
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.680
took it as a personal attack because there's their identity

421
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:46.920
is wrapped up in this and who they are and

422
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.000
what they do. And I was like, I gotta stop,

423
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:53.400
I gotta stop doing this, right. So I mean, yeah,

424
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.599
the reality of the situation is that we ended up

425
00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:58.920
this is what happened, right pre eighty five? Talk about

426
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.599
it in UH and Slaying the Dragon pre eighty five.

427
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.039
Do you know what the treatment industry was called? What

428
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.799
the field of recovery? So look at the language how

429
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:08.440
that changed?

430
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:08.880
Right?

431
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.839
You industrialized this thing that used to be a different,

432
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.160
like really a different thing, right, And it's like, so

433
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:20.279
you industrialize it and the mission changes, right, and now

434
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:24.240
we're tied to insurance companies. They have a fiduciary obligation

435
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.759
to maximize profits, right. United Healthcare, this whole thing that

436
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.880
happened with Luigi Mangioni and stuff. A bunch of us

437
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:32.799
were like, hey, we might actually get to see internal

438
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:38.720
policy around not approving, right. And because United, there's like

439
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:40.559
this rumor. I don't know if you guys have heard this,

440
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.680
but there's a rumor that they will do fiscal assessments

441
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.160
at the beginning of the year and try to predict

442
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:50.680
if they will save money approving claims or denying claims

443
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:53.640
and just taking the fines. Right.

444
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:57.119
And so no, I didn't hear that, but there isn't anything.

445
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.519
And I think United's at the top of the list.

446
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:04.960
Sure, yeah, I mean, dude, they're notorious for denying claims, right.

447
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.839
And it's like the other part is they're looking at

448
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.640
treatment episodes in the physical year because the deductibles and

449
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:13.319
out of pockets reset at the beginning of the year,

450
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:18.400
so you can go in January and you're kind of

451
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:21.079
fucked for the rest of the year, right, But if

452
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.160
you go again to go in January, they're going to

453
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.559
approve it, right, because now this is on part of

454
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.839
this is on you, right, And this is why I

455
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.079
always ask like, if value based healthcare was implemented, like,

456
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:33.599
what do you think would happen? Do you think we

457
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:35.920
just go the way of the dinosaur? Or do you

458
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.279
think we'd implement effective programming?

459
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:39.079
Right?

460
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.799
Everybody, Oh, yeah, we're effect effective programming. It's like, why

461
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.079
aren't we doing that? Like, if you know that that's

462
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:46.640
a possibility, why aren't we doing it?

463
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.400
And you know, I was somebody who I've toned it

464
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.720
down quite a bit. I mean to even have a

465
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.519
conversation about this without like my nervous I'm just I've

466
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:56.359
done a lot of work around it because it used

467
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.279
to be a thing, like a real serious thing for me.

468
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:01.799
It's still very serious. It just doesn't have the impact

469
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:04.440
that it did on my nervous system. But I used

470
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:08.359
to judge. I used to judge. I used to judge

471
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.240
people super harshly in the field and it and what

472
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.319
I've recognized is, yes, there's plenty of fuckings comebacks that

473
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:16.720
are running around and like and now they're like on

474
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:19.160
social trying to be businessmen and talk about you all

475
00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:21.480
those bullshit. It's like, listen, motherfucker, he was selling pissed

476
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:22.599
at three thousand dollars.

477
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:25.400
For sure, there's nothing seven times a week. You're the

478
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:26.079
same client.

479
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.279
You're not an innovator, you're a criminal. Right, So I

480
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:30.880
get it. But there are a lot of people who

481
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.920
it's that. It's like it's like the allegory of the

482
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:35.839
cave Man, Like if you don't know that there's this

483
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.119
thing people don't know, Like these business development people that

484
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.519
I used to judge, there's a lot of especially in Santoni,

485
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:43.480
there's a lot of young ones that just don't know.

486
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.480
They don't they don't know what it's really like. And

487
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.359
I'll be like, yeah, I remember getting a call from

488
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:53.000
a girl who went to detox, was drugged, kidnapped, and

489
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:58.200
then resent to a residential facility, honest to God because

490
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.559
of her policy. And when she I woke up, she

491
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.640
was on blackout. The parents had been convinced that if

492
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.440
they talk to her, she's gonna die. Sure, right, dude,

493
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.279
this is the type of shit that was going down.

494
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:11.960
And I'll say that and I sound like the crazy

495
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.000
one in the room, and I'm like, listen, there's nothing

496
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.880
Hollywood could do. What's that movie that they like, there's nothing.

497
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:19.640
I haven't seen it, but there's nothing that they could

498
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:21.839
put out that would come close to the truth.

499
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:22.160
Sure.

500
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.519
Yeah, that's fucking terrifying.

501
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.720
I mean, dude, I I say this all the time

502
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.119
as like a preface for what I go when I

503
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.480
go into this, is that I'll never try to take

504
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:35.960
away from the average addiction professional from what they do. Uh,

505
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.480
most of them are in recovery. Most of them really

506
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:40.799
believe what they're saying. We're in the business saving lives

507
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.200
and we're helping so many people. They believe that there's

508
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.359
three groups of people that need to be held accountable

509
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:50.119
for this. Investors, owners and payers. Right, they're the only

510
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:52.480
ones that can really set the pace for the product

511
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:52.799
that's the.

512
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.880
Living absolute, which that's the you speak in my language,

513
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:57.440
You're like, that's what I did. I said, I'm gonna

514
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.599
lead the charge. I'm gonna spend a ton of money,

515
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.519
and I'm gonna show it's to me what I feel like.

516
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:06.640
It's similar to the four minute mile. Are you familiar

517
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.039
with that phenomena? So the four minutes getting tighter and tighter. Well,

518
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.079
the four minute mile used to be impossible. Sure before

519
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.400
before Prefontaine did it, or I think he was the

520
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.160
one that did it, but before it happened, and then

521
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:18.599
right after it happened, like twenty six of them, right,

522
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.480
So my my my thought process was, and I remember

523
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.599
I got I didn't have any money when I started.

524
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.079
I got three people who two of them would say

525
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:28.759
I saved their life, which I don't agree with, but

526
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.319
they believe that. And another friend of mine who was like,

527
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:33.519
I want to help you get started, and they would

528
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.079
ask questions. They're not investors in the sense of like

529
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.200
what's the bottom mine? What's the bottom mine? They want

530
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:40.319
to help people, right, but they're also business people, and

531
00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:43.720
they would say, what happens when people start copying us

532
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.799
or leveling up? And do you remember what I want?

533
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:50.519
My answer, we want, sure, I fucking want, dude, Like

534
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:52.839
I'm in it for that reason. Now. Granted, I want

535
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:54.279
to make a living and I need to do my stuff,

536
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.319
and I feel like I've studied enough, and you know,

537
00:26:57.400 --> 00:26:59.839
when I write the checks for the saunas and the plunges,

538
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.559
I need to get paid. Like it's there's a thing

539
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:05.319
happening here that isn't available across the board. But at

540
00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:09.240
the end of the day, I want to level up

541
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.720
the entire industry. And people say, set big hairy goals. Okay,

542
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.839
that's a big hairy one, because how do you change

543
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:17.839
as much as But once people realize it can be

544
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:19.279
done and you don't have to do it the way

545
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.759
that I chose to do it, But you can invest

546
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:24.279
more into your program, you can look at ways to

547
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:27.880
grab people's attention. You can provide an incredible sort and

548
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:31.599
be successful. Sure, and when you have the pieces and

549
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:34.200
I'm not a person who I'm not trying to hide

550
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:36.680
anything like we talk about I have. If you wanted

551
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:39.119
to bring your team up, we do an immersion event.

552
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.960
We show people, we talk about there's no secrets, like,

553
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.920
we haven't figured this thing out yet. We're getting incredible results,

554
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:46.839
but I don't think it's the end all be all.

555
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:51.039
It's a very different way to do something that it

556
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.839
seemed like a lot of people didn't really want to

557
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.000
fuck with, which was like, how do we improve treatment?

558
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:57.079
You know, and the outcomes for yeah, how do we

559
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.640
improve treatment? It takes money, right, and then money that

560
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:02.839
you won't get back because you're not getting reimbursed for

561
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.400
cold plunges. Nope, Right, that's not that's not approved as

562
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:12.000
a therapy modality. Right, And then you know it's it's

563
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:15.279
a whole Ultimately, as a treatment owner, this doesn't help

564
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:17.440
me and it probably not gonna help you. But I

565
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:19.599
tell people all the time, treatment is a fucking scam.

566
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:23.319
It doesn't work. Right. If you're gonna send somebody to treatment,

567
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.240
they should fit a specific criteria. Right. And do you

568
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.160
guys know who doctor Shaws? Doctor? So, doctor Shaw is

569
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.279
the only board certified neurologist in the country who after

570
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.279
he got board certified, he was forced into recovery by

571
00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.480
the medical Board and then he became an addiction medicine specialist.

572
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:40.359
Right.

573
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.079
And so his the whole framework, the whole lens that

574
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:45.920
he looks at addiction through is through neurology, right. And

575
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.799
so we've created a model. We have a bunch of

576
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:54.200
white papers being written currently by some PhDs, and we're

577
00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.640
going to do We're going to implement this in Harmony

578
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.200
Grove and do a study. Right. And ultimately he says this,

579
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.400
He says, treatment doesn't have a programming issue, right, there's

580
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:06.319
an education in awareness issue. But then there's also the

581
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.640
philosophy of care issue too, where it's like people create

582
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.000
the full continuum so that they can keep track of

583
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:14.839
people until they relapse to send them back into the

584
00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:15.559
money maker.

585
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:16.960
And lower their cost per acquisition.

586
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.400
Sure, oh dude, for sure, for sure, right, because it's like,

587
00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:23.519
if we've got them in the continuum and they relapse,

588
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.839
that was a free client, right. And how many treatment

589
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.640
centers do you know are paying their bills like they're

590
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.519
just their their overhead nut monthly with the return customers

591
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:39.599
probably forty percent? Right. Most of them that are doing

592
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:43.279
this would never admit to that, right. I know a

593
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.480
treatment center that just sold. They're open for ten years,

594
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.480
not treatment episodes, but guess how many clients they served total?

595
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:52.680
Oh super low, dude.

596
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.480
It blew my mind when I found this out. Ten

597
00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.319
years of operations, four hundred and thirty clients. Wow, hundred

598
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:05.039
and thirty, so forty three every year. But one person

599
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:06.839
I know somebody that went there thirteen times.

600
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:07.799
Wow.

601
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.640
Right, It's like whoa, Yeah, this is the kind of thing.

602
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:14.160
And so ultimately I was like, how can that be

603
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:18.000
possible for a treatment center who is highly profitable to

604
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.680
only serve forty three individual clients a year. So I

605
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:24.519
started doing research and the government just came out these statistics.

606
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:28.079
They said that forty six million people this year will

607
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:32.599
report self report using addictively or problematically. Seventeen percent of

608
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:35.839
them will seek services. Of that seventeen percent, only six

609
00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:39.720
hundred thousand will go to residential So of that we're

610
00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:41.799
talking about a very small percentage of the people that

611
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.519
need help, right, And of that, all the bd reps,

612
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.440
all these companies, they're all fighting over that fraction of

613
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.799
the people that need services. Well, what is the barrier

614
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:54.839
to entry? What are why are they not receiving services?

615
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.960
It's money, right, and it's like these are big problem.

616
00:30:58.039 --> 00:31:01.319
These are huge problems actually, because we see the overdose

617
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.319
rates spiking. You got stuff like xylazine hidden the scene,

618
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.480
all these other whatever else they're making that are killing

619
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:10.039
people's arms falling off, and shit, well let's.

620
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:13.319
Not and don't forget about the precursor to all of that,

621
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:16.599
which is this hyperderm right here, dude. So it's prepping.

622
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:19.440
You're prepping kids and people for a lifetime of that,

623
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:22.519
and once the other chemicals hit, I mean, they're.

624
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:27.359
Screwed, dude. I saw all do you forty six, forty six, fifty. Okay,

625
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.559
so I'm thirty seven yesterday and birthday.

626
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:31.759
I just had a birthday and the march.

627
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.000
Wow, happy birthday. You're in arees.

628
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:34.359
Yeah.

629
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:40.119
Yeah, So I'm part of the last not just generation,

630
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.119
but literally like some of the last people that would

631
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:45.000
like have to call the house phone to get a

632
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.400
hold of the girl and then just pray that dad

633
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:51.680
wouldn't answer, wouldn't answer, because then it's the gatekeepers. You

634
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:53.440
got to answer the questions, and you got to have

635
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:55.680
the right answer, and you got to do this and that. Right,

636
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:59.319
It's like there was actual socially built in like to

637
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:05.480
these interactions, social constructs for like approval and so like

638
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:10.759
socialization amongst children to adults and stuff like accountability. Right,

639
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:12.640
and because back in the day it was like, Okay,

640
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.839
you're gonna take my daughter on this date, she'd better

641
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.319
be home by ten o'clock. Now it's like, oh, I'm

642
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:20.759
going out, all right, see you later, see you later, yeah, right,

643
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.839
And it's like they don't know who they're going with,

644
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:24.640
they don't know who the guy is, they don't know

645
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:26.200
if the guy opened the door for her, well.

646
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.599
Chances that he's not even driving because they don't want licenses.

647
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.799
It's crazy.

648
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:31.160
Yeah.

649
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.759
And it's like, so now they're meeting at the mall, right,

650
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:37.519
And this is where I ran into problems, right, because

651
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.519
I still had all those like social roadblocks in place,

652
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:43.880
Like this was twenty years ago, right, I still had

653
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.319
to like get around the gatekeepers and like make it

654
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:49.319
over the hurdles and stuff. I was slamming hero when

655
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:53.079
it's seventeen, right, And so imagine today you could buy

656
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:56.920
drugs online. Dude. There are people their entire drug business

657
00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:00.440
is on Instagram. Right. It's like all these kids have

658
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:04.000
access to this stuff pornography, right, pornography for young men.

659
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.599
We're seeing the downstream effects in the first generations of

660
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:12.480
people that we weren't evolutionarily prepared for this. Nope. Right,

661
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.000
it's like this hit immediately and everybody just took off

662
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.720
with talk about it all the time, dude, It's insane, Right,

663
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:22.000
And so it's like, how do you nervous cigare system regulation?

664
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.440
But then also like the architecture of the brain is

665
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.960
being fucked with from the earliest of ages ages. This

666
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.440
is more dope and dopaminergic than heroin.

667
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:33.799
Absolutly, this is the most this thing is it's an

668
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:34.680
apex predator.

669
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.200
Oh yeah, I just made a real about this yesterday. Literally, dude,

670
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:40.799
leave your phone away for a week and think of

671
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:43.480
a day and then I say a week, and think

672
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:45.279
about how much you think about it.

673
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.920
Sure, do an interesting thing. I don't know if you've

674
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:50.920
done this in any of your programs, but uh, take

675
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:55.519
take their phones. Give them like a Beck depression inventory

676
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:59.000
before you take it. Okay, take the phone, give them

677
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.359
one after, give them one, let them scroll for five minutes,

678
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:06.359
and it wants you will see some wild, wild results.

679
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:11.239
It's just that digs regulation and like, dude, yeah, I bet.

680
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.440
I mean, I'm a person in Longctumber recovery that's constantly

681
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.760
in growth and I see the effects of I have

682
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.719
to like we talk about it, limit ourselves on it.

683
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.679
We have to like be intentional. Sure you know. And

684
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:27.119
I'm like a social media like I have a following

685
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.639
and so I'm on there a lot and it sucks

686
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.519
me in knowing that it's going to suck me in.

687
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:36.400
How crazy? Now, what about the mind that has like

688
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:40.159
it's fragile, no awareness, no awareness of self, dude, just

689
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:43.800
driven by the algorithm. Yeah, I mean, dude, they've done

690
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:48.320
all those brain scans on alcoholics. The actual architecture of

691
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:52.360
the prefrontal cortex is fundamentally different in an alcoholic than

692
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:54.800
a regular person. And they're saying that it's because of

693
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:57.840
the dopamine input. Right, Well, what do you think this

694
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.079
is doing to kids out, dude? And on top of that,

695
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:04.119
these phones have everything now, gambling everything, I mean everything.

696
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:06.960
It's got every like Las Vegas is on your phone,

697
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.239
sure in every state. That's the next wave of Oh yeah,

698
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.159
we're going to say, well, dude, think about like educational apps. Right,

699
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:20.320
they have engaged casino casino app engineers to help them

700
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.320
make education apps more addicting.

701
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.320
You know, right, have you heard of a guy named

702
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.599
Michael Easter. No, he wrote a book called Comfort Crisis.

703
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.360
And you'd like this book because you're definitely hip to

704
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:33.519
research that most people don't know about. A lot of

705
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:35.000
people don't even know bout laying the dragon.

706
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:40.239
Dude. That blows my dude. Every addiction professional that I've

707
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:42.639
ever asked, you know who William White is my next question?

708
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:46.719
And when they always say no, I didn't say no, true, true,

709
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.159
You're actually the first person.

710
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.079
Right. Don't want that credit, dude, I want that dude.

711
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.199
Dude, I give you the credit for that. Dude. It's

712
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:56.960
it's amazing how many people are not aware of the

713
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:01.639
Recovery Research Institute of White just in general, but then

714
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:03.159
doctor Robbins and all them.

715
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:06.159
It's not amazing because why if you went into a

716
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:08.360
group of people that were meeting for a networking event

717
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.360
and we're talking about a lot of BD people are

718
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:14.679
doing what on the phones work? Okay, they're putting people

719
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:17.079
in treatment, sure, and they're they're the first line of

720
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:19.840
what whether they're a good fit or not. Ask a

721
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.719
room full of those people the last time they read

722
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:25.320
a research article? Ask them this. I start with that

723
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:27.280
question and pissed the people off because you and I

724
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:29.679
have similar traits in that way. I think about, like,

725
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.599
you know, challenging. The next question is when's last time

726
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:38.880
you fucking read anything anything that pertains to professional development

727
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:42.719
that's not a business book that has to do with psychology.

728
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:44.920
That has to do And I always do this at

729
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:48.679
our center. Are you real smart or are you real smart?

730
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:51.599
So are ee L? Are you real smart or are

731
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.920
you our e al smart? Because so many people get

732
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:57.239
a clip of a thirty and that's what our attention

733
00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:59.119
has been trained on and then they're like, oh, sweet,

734
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.920
I know something because Huberman said it. And it's like,

735
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:04.559
not everything that comes out of Human's podcast is like

736
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.440
pertains to our industry or is accurate. There's so much

737
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.159
bullshit on it. So anyway, that's a whole nother probably

738
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:11.840
whole nother show.

739
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:14.559
But I mean, yeah, dude, it's but it blows my mind.

740
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.119
They don't know who they are, right, And it's like,

741
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.679
these are the pregenitors for like William White wrote the

742
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:25.119
book on Ethics for Addiction Professionals, And I'm like, how

743
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:27.440
do you not know any of this stuff?

744
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:27.679
Right?

745
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:30.000
And it's like the first line of defense, right, the

746
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:33.039
first person in line to make those clinical assessments bead,

747
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.760
they got a year and some in recovery on average. Right,

748
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.039
It's like, which is fine, Right, that's great. They need jobs,

749
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:41.920
they need they want to be in this field. That's

750
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.639
I'm not trying to take away from them. Right. It's

751
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.360
the like I said, it's the owners, investors, and the

752
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.320
payers that really set the pace for the product that's delivered.

753
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:54.920
Like what you did, right, It's like you created a

754
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.599
product that's effective. Right, it cost you money. It costs

755
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:01.760
the bottom line ultimately is what's gonna But the reality

756
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:04.880
is we're the average person that starts treatment. Do you

757
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:08.440
guys know who the biggest private owners are of treatment

758
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:12.000
in the US people who are recovery, Madison and Blackrock.

759
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:17.199
Because the people in recovery, we are physically or responsible,

760
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:20.000
we have ego problems. Ultimately, what ends up happening is

761
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:20.639
you go to Tap.

762
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:21.239
Shit.

763
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:21.920
I shouldn't have said.

764
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:23.920
I'm saying because I want to hear this.

765
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:25.800
You go to Tap and you see people pulling up

766
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:28.840
in the Ferraris and the McLarens, and it's like, yeah, dude,

767
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:32.559
you gave me a bunch of money, prestige telling them

768
00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:35.159
that they're saving people's lives. They're not going to the

769
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.400
treatment center and working with people, right, And then you

770
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.239
give them a bunch of money, and you wonder why

771
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.639
the company is being sold six years after they open,

772
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.559
after and and you know, in the treatment industry, the

773
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.800
owner gets the repute, builds the reputation, right, So when

774
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.480
people associate Harmony Grove, they they're gonna associate it with me, right,

775
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.920
and that relationship and that reputation. It doesn't matter if

776
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.320
the programming with the shit they're still going to refer

777
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:03.519
to that reputation, right, And so the reputation carries people,

778
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.920
and then you hear it down the line where it's like, oh, yeah,

779
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.119
we used to love this program. We don't really know

780
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:11.199
what happened, but we're still gonna send people there, right,

781
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:15.280
And it's like why why It's like, well, you know,

782
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:17.039
if they really are honest, it's like we have this

783
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.920
relationship that's mutually beneficial. Right, They're gonna send me people.

784
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:23.480
I'm gonna send them people. And it's like, but would

785
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:28.320
you send your family, Well you know, yeah, yeah, no,

786
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:29.519
we're sending them to wherever.

787
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:30.960
You know. What's the justest thing is that you bring

788
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:32.840
that up. And I was doing a talking not too

789
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.119
long ago, and that was one of the one of

790
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:36.800
the reasons I had to start my home. I either

791
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:38.639
had to start my own program or get up sure like.

792
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:40.920
It was one of those, and it really was. And

793
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:43.639
I worked for some decent outside of the boarding school

794
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:47.920
in that program, but it was young people. I have yet,

795
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.400
until now with my program, been at a place that

796
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:53.400
I worked where I would send a family member, and

797
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:55.599
that was really hard for me because I have this

798
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:57.360
like I was I need to get paid, and I

799
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.239
got to I got to make a living, and this

800
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:00.719
is what I know. And I feel like I am

801
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:02.679
making a difference with the people that I interact with.

802
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.960
But when when I came face to face with that truth,

803
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:08.119
it was a fucking heart build a wall. Like I've

804
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.400
been working for these places, and then I looked at

805
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:12.880
what I was willing to give them, but really giving

806
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.679
it to the people that I'm serving, Right, I'm serving

807
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:18.079
the addicts, but I'm like giving these owners.

808
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:19.800
In that you're benefiting somebody that doesn't give us.

809
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.400
Yeah, And it was like, man, I would not send

810
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:25.480
if I got a call from anyone I really cared about,

811
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:27.239
I would look somewhere else.

812
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:30.119
Sure, it's crazy, it's really.

813
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:31.039
Crazy, fucking wild.

814
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:34.119
Yeah, So what do you think about all this? Everything

815
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:39.519
we're talking about, I relate to all of it. Yeah, yeah, dude,

816
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:40.840
I mean we used to work at the same place.

817
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:42.280
We worked at the same place.

818
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:43.280
So yeah.

819
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:45.199
And the reason I even worked because I'm out in

820
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:50.239
Austin and I did a lot of national marketing. Sure, yeah,

821
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:54.280
And he had a I thought he was an owner

822
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:57.519
of the place, and so he called me in and

823
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.760
me and him started working there. He created a program

824
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:05.039
similar to what we have, not what we have, which

825
00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.519
drew me to it because I've never seen anything like that,

826
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:13.159
but I mean poetic justice, right, he was let go

827
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:17.599
and then after my heart transplant, Yeah, that company let

828
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:20.599
me go after like five years and talking about giving

829
00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:25.039
your true like brother, Like I literally was on my

830
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:28.440
ventilator because I came through on the ventilator like four times,

831
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:34.119
literally putting people on the treatment, setting up meetings in

832
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:38.239
California on West Coast, symposium with all my people, all

833
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:43.599
my contact everything. So like I'm in the same boat

834
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:46.960
as him, because then after my heart transplant, I was

835
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:50.519
let go and I had just written this book and

836
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:52.119
it wasn't even out yet, and I'm like, what am

837
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:53.679
I going to do? I don't even know if I

838
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.760
could step back into this industry because then you start

839
00:41:56.800 --> 00:42:01.400
seeing also like people that you were you you invite

840
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:06.079
into your life and have relationships with like a decade,

841
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:08.639
and like they're come in and visit you, and then

842
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:13.119
and then they're throwing parties with the company that did

843
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:17.800
that to me. So you see everything, which is like

844
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.960
a gift and a curse in itself. But it the

845
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:24.760
only reason I stepped back in would have been either

846
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:26.880
to do it myself and I didn't have the money

847
00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:30.119
to do it myself, or him coming to me.

848
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:30.400
Bro.

849
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.360
Yeah, it's the only reason, you know it. It was

850
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:36.960
the only reason. And it's like a hard pillar to swallow,

851
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.960
but like it's it's so beautiful because we just got

852
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.400
ranked the number one treatments and in San Antonio, dude,

853
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.760
and it's like and we're not stopping, dude, and we

854
00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:51.679
have an amazing program culture environment and you know, sometimes

855
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:53.679
you got to thank people for the cuts, dude. But

856
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.039
there's a lot of that in our industry, bro, Dude,

857
00:42:57.320 --> 00:42:59.360
there's a lot of that in our industry. And it's

858
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:01.960
people making believe that they're friends with you. And the

859
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:04.760
minute that anybody could just stick a knife in your

860
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:08.480
back to take whatever they feel that they want of you,

861
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:09.920
you know they're gonna do it.

862
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:10.199
Dude.

863
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:13.800
It's crazy. That's the reality. Yeah, that's the reality. Brother.

864
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.480
It's a ladder, right because you can start off as

865
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:20.519
a PhD and end up the CEO and we've seen it. Yeah,

866
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:25.480
and it's like, uh, is one person that is in

867
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:27.639
my way going to stop me from doing what I

868
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.039
want to do?

869
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:28.960
Right?

870
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:30.880
And this is I mean, we've seen it in the streets.

871
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.000
And now it's like people get sober and they think

872
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.920
that they just become a better person, and it's like, no,

873
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.239
you just stop doing drugs, right, what is it? Becoming

874
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:42.679
a better person entails a lot more than just taking

875
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:44.840
away the drugs, so dude, and then goes back to

876
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.280
this just and I say this, and I'm blunt and

877
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:49.599
I don't say words the right way and I spell

878
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:51.320
things wrong. It's just sure, I am dude, you know

879
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.159
what I mean? My bead mark England. It's I meant

880
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:56.599
to say that, but it's just that's who.

881
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:57.000
I am, dude.

882
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:04.159
But the reality is this, bro, whenever they like somebody

883
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:10.159
wants to leave, let them sure because what it does,

884
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:14.440
and through my experience is it makes room for what

885
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:17.440
it's supposed to be, dude. And it's like this was

886
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:20.400
exactly God's plan for me, all of it, Dude. I

887
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.239
don't question it. Like me personally, we all have our

888
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:27.760
experiences with emotion and our journeys. But for me, it's

889
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:30.760
exactly what was supposed to happen. And I don't question

890
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.239
it and I never questioned it. And I also just

891
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:40.039
because other people do, do did you dirty doesn't mean

892
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:43.280
you have to operate from that. So even when everything

893
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:46.880
was gone, brother, I still served, Like I'm here to serve.

894
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.719
I say that word, but that's the truth because I

895
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:52.280
literally left here and I made a deal with God

896
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.559
that like, let me come back, I don't care about nothing.

897
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:56.599
Give me time with my son to be able to serve.

898
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.599
And I've been doing that, brother, Yeah, I do that

899
00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:02.360
all over the world. One of the court, Like there's

900
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:05.440
a mandate at step twelve. Right, go do this with

901
00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:08.840
someone else, right, And so I tell people all the time, right,

902
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:11.840
if you're gonna get sober and then not help people,

903
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:14.000
just stay using because we don't need you and you're

904
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:15.400
in our way and you're not helping.

905
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:15.800
Right.

906
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.960
So it's like and then on top of that, once

907
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:20.960
you get sober, you have a debt. Like we already

908
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:22.320
have a debt, right, Like I fucked a lot of

909
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:23.840
people over in my life. I've done a lot of

910
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:26.559
fucked up shit. Most of us have, whether it's on

911
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:29.599
a huge scale or a small scale. We have a debt, right,

912
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:32.519
But then you get into recovery, like not just sobriety, right,

913
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.719
you get into recovery and that debt like dude, exponentially

914
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:40.519
grows daily because I wake up this morning, right, dude,

915
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.719
how I can't move? Dude, I should be in prison.

916
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:46.679
I should be dead, okay, and but I'm not. So

917
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:49.480
I should be in prison and I'm not. Right. And

918
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:53.360
so it's like there is a mathematical equation to recovery. Right,

919
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:56.960
It's like suffering plus help somebody else equals relief. Okay,

920
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.880
mathematically this is universal. This is a universal truth that

921
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.679
if you are suffering, whether it's mental, anguish, emotional, whatever,

922
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.599
if you help somebody else, it will immediately alleviate it.

923
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:08.239
Right.

924
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:12.239
This is an eternal universal truth. Right. And so then

925
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:15.760
you went to recovery and a lot of people stop

926
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.760
at I did the twelve steps that I'm sponsoring, right,

927
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.360
But doctor Sau says it. He says, if you want

928
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.960
better sponsors, it sponsors, you got to be a better sponsor. Right.

929
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:27.719
You can't. We put the blame on the attic so

930
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:31.599
many times, right, especially in treatment, right, because we can

931
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:33.679
easily drop somebody on their head and be like it

932
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.920
was your fault that you relapsed, it was your fault

933
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:39.639
that the program didn't work. And who's gonna argue that, right?

934
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:43.840
Because we have we have all the certificates on the

935
00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:46.360
wall and all the letters off. I don't, but the

936
00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:50.559
industry does, right. And it's like, so when you went

937
00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:52.719
to recovery and you've got this debt, what is going

938
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:55.480
to balance that scale that? It isn't making more money.

939
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:59.239
It isn't how you look on your face, right, It

940
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.960
isn't how many people can you say you've kept sober?

941
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:03.199
How many people have you helped?

942
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:04.079
Right?

943
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:06.400
What does that actually mean? What does help actually mean? Right?

944
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.519
And in that there's a dichotomy. It's you're either helping

945
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:11.679
or you're hurting, and there is no in between. So

946
00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:15.760
if you're not helping, then you just buy nature of this.

947
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:16.719
You are hurting people.

948
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:21.519
There's a guy he's the CEO of our EMR and

949
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:28.119
he's an ex ranger and his in his business written okay, phenomenal.

950
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.840
I couldn't say enough good stuff about them. But Noah

951
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:33.880
is his name, and he always says impact is the

952
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:34.480
only metric.

953
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.800
Yeah, that's heavy. Yeah, and it's being observed m hm,

954
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:44.000
all of it for sure, observed by high source right,

955
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:47.440
for sure, all of it. Yeah, it's a karmic realm

956
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.920
wor in sure. Yeah, dude, you guys speak my language. Yeah,

957
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:56.079
it's interesting because it's like, you know, all of us

958
00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:59.159
are in recovery, like the people everybody that I talked to.

959
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:00.800
If you're not in rec however, you're trying to get

960
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.719
in recovery, that's who I talk to. And this is

961
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.639
what I talk about. This is all I talk about.

962
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:07.159
My wife's in recovery. We were almost together living under

963
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.079
the bridge, right, and she's like, do you ever talk

964
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:11.880
about anything else? It's like, I don't know if there's

965
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:15.960
anything else to talk about, right, Like I don't. For me.

966
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:19.559
I mean, you look at my credentials. I shouldn't be

967
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:24.679
doing any of this, right, I'm not actually qualified for much, right,

968
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:27.000
and like you look at my rap sheet, I look

969
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:29.599
like I'm a six year old convict. Like it's bad.

970
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:33.199
So when I got into this situation, I was like,

971
00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:34.639
this is the only thing that makes sense to me,

972
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:38.000
is to get into treatment from the client's point of view.

973
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:40.480
Well, I think, actually I want to just challenge what

974
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.199
you're saying, because you know, I have a degree. I

975
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:48.480
went to school to become a therapist and a personal

976
00:48:48.519 --> 00:48:51.079
recovery and I just talked about this on one of

977
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:54.559
the shows and it pisses some people off. I'm very,

978
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:58.840
very geared at our center to make sure that the

979
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:02.719
para professionals the You know, there's certain people whose personal

980
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.599
recovery qualifies them for the job. Right, It's like they

981
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:10.480
are equally as important as anyone with a degree, like

982
00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:14.039
there is at our center. The I'm not the centerpiece,

983
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.800
like there is no If the therapist does not do

984
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:24.000
their job in session, the coach who's running the clients

985
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:27.079
through the classes, they can't do their job, and vice versa,

986
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.599
and so it's all connected. But so many people have

987
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:32.159
that like, well if you look at my but your

988
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:36.519
experience is what gives you this authority in this space

989
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:38.599
because you saw it from your own perspective, Like what

990
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:41.280
better way to everything that's coming out of your mouth

991
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:43.960
around the research and the people you follow and the

992
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.079
things that you're trying to accomplish and the problems that

993
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:50.039
you've identified. It comes from having been a client that

994
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:54.559
that got screwed, You were affected by the system, and

995
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:58.400
those tend to be the best people. Because we live

996
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.239
in a day and age where you don't it gives a

997
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:03.039
shit about the degree. It's your time and your energy.

998
00:50:03.079 --> 00:50:05.559
What are you spending I'm researching, I'm reading shit, I'm

999
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:08.920
finding mentors, I'm doing. Those are the people who bring

1000
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:12.039
truth to these conversations, yeah, right, versus the ones who

1001
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:16.360
are like the academic the credentials on the wall and

1002
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:20.039
the conditioned responses or the experiences of like, Oh, I

1003
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.360
went to school and I'm stuck in this. I think

1004
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.119
that's a dangerous place for not a lot of disruptors

1005
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:27.559
live in that space. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure

1006
00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:29.280
in this industry needs disruptors.

1007
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:34.159
Yeah, dude, I I personally what I envisioned happening, right,

1008
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:37.280
And you can see like the beginnings of this is

1009
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:40.159
that peer support will revolutionize the way the treatment's done

1010
00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:43.559
in the next five years probably, right. And the reason

1011
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:46.639
why they I say that is because I'm from California

1012
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:49.840
and I come to Texas, and I get involved with

1013
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.840
peer support in Colorado, and then I learn about peer

1014
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:56.559
support in Texas, right, the RSPs, Right. And what I've

1015
00:50:56.679 --> 00:51:00.599
noticed is that most people that get into RSP are

1016
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:04.599
finding a way to monetize twelve steps, right, They are

1017
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:07.440
getting paid to do twelve step work, which if you

1018
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:09.760
look at what William White and all that original group

1019
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:13.480
of peer support, like Progenitors said is that there is

1020
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:18.239
a fundamental disconnect between peer support and twelve step. Right,

1021
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.519
you can't get paid to do the twelve step work.

1022
00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:23.079
And then on top of that, c Car said that

1023
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:25.519
you're in recovery when and if you say you are right,

1024
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:27.639
And it's like there's a metric within the twelve step

1025
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:29.679
framework of when you're in recovery, right, you've got to

1026
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:33.280
be abstinate first. That goes against twelve step philosophy, I

1027
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:37.519
mean the peer support philosophy and the theory. Right, It's like, no,

1028
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:39.280
we're supposed to be going out under the bridge and

1029
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:44.840
bringing people to recovery, whereas like most twelve step you know,

1030
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:47.800
part of the framework is like you've got to come

1031
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:51.840
abstinate already, right, And it's like or just keep coming

1032
00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.440
back until you are. But then how do you participate

1033
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:57.280
in the steps If you're not abstinate, you can't, right,

1034
00:51:57.320 --> 00:52:00.159
And so it's like, but peer support will revolution is

1035
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:02.079
the way that people are brought into recovery. Right, you

1036
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:04.800
can use that as the first lily pad to educate

1037
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:08.280
around language, and educate around expectations, and educate around like

1038
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:11.119
what you're actually going to go do? Right, So everybody

1039
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:13.440
that I work with from a recovery coach point of

1040
00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:15.400
view is I'm not telling you that you got to

1041
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.599
go become a member, telling you got to go do

1042
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:20.159
the work because William White said it right. Never in

1043
00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:23.119
the history of addiction treatment has anything ever been more

1044
00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:26.519
effective and probably never will be than the twelve step work, right,

1045
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:29.199
And so I tell them go do the work. And

1046
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:31.480
how many times you guys heard people say it like, oh,

1047
00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:33.679
twelve step didn't work for me. It's like, well, how

1048
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:35.639
many people do sponsor? Like well, I didn't even get

1049
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:36.039
asked that.

1050
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:38.800
I got the fourth step for you for the program?

1051
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:41.239
Yeah. Well, and then on top of that, people kind

1052
00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:43.400
of like, use I did the twelve steps as the metric,

1053
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.320
And it's like, no, you have to sponsor people to

1054
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:49.280
say that you participated in the program. Right. How many

1055
00:52:49.280 --> 00:52:51.119
people are that are saying twelve step didn't work for

1056
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:54.000
me actually sponsored people, right? And it's like, so I'm

1057
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:56.280
telling these people, I'm not telling you go be a member.

1058
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:59.000
I'm telling you go do the work. And that means

1059
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:02.159
finishing respondship and then you make it. You can make

1060
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:04.599
a choice, right. But the whole thing that I'm trying

1061
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.360
to do is get them into a community, right, because

1062
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:11.840
recovery happens in community, treatment happens in facilities. Most people

1063
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:16.400
associate recovery with treatment, right, And it's like, that's fucking backwards,

1064
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:20.199
it's totally wrong. And then on top of that, we

1065
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:23.079
adopted the twelve step model in the treatment industry. Fucked

1066
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:27.360
over the twelve steps, right because now we're attaching consequences

1067
00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:30.039
to something that's supposed to be voluntary.

1068
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:30.840
Through this whole another show.

1069
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:32.360
Holy dude, for sure.

1070
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.519
Yeah, your privileges tied to how many steps you works?

1071
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.960
And dude, I just got an email, well you know what,

1072
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:40.639
I want to hear your story. But I was also

1073
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:42.199
thinking real quick on the way over here. I don't

1074
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:45.119
know why I had the thought, but the idea of

1075
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:46.519
the thing that I used to put a really bad

1076
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:49.280
taste in my mouth is the programs that would take

1077
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:51.320
lunch from the book and making the program title.

1078
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:57.119
Dude, Yeah, I'm not even gonna say no.

1079
00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:59.559
I know he'd be out there and there's people that

1080
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.039
I know and probably are friends with who are affiliated

1081
00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:04.039
or own them, but like that just always put a

1082
00:54:04.039 --> 00:54:05.679
bad taste of their mouths when it came to the

1083
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:06.280
step works.

1084
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.679
Yeah, dude. I mean, so William White, funny enough, totally

1085
00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:13.840
anti twelve step work in the in treatment, right, And

1086
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:16.280
it's like there's a reason for that. It isn't just

1087
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:19.159
because he's a twelve step guy, right, And it isn't

1088
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:21.639
because it doesn't work. It's because the way we're doing

1089
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.559
it doesn't work. And then if you make it mandate.

1090
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:26.440
So this is a story. We just got a UUR

1091
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:31.000
review back and they approved twelve more weeks, but they

1092
00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:33.159
wanted to know are they going to meetings, do they

1093
00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:35.840
have a sponsor, and are they doing step work in

1094
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:39.920
order to get more treatment? And it's like that is

1095
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.760
fundamentally against what twelve step shit. Bill and Bob show

1096
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.079
up today, right, they go to any room or any

1097
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.360
treatment center, they're gonna be like, what the fuck happened?

1098
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:49.079
What happened?

1099
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:49.320
Right?

1100
00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:51.920
This is crazy, right, And it's like we're coming up

1101
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:55.239
on AE hundred years, right, and for something that used

1102
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.719
to be so effective, right, you look at the first thousand,

1103
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:02.599
like a ton of them got sober for life, right,

1104
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:05.679
not happening today. People are going in and out and

1105
00:55:05.719 --> 00:55:07.760
in and out, in and out, and it's like, well,

1106
00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:11.880
one hundred years, one hundred years of social acceptance, social advances,

1107
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:16.119
scientific advances studies. Billions of dollars dumped in this thing,

1108
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:19.039
and we've completely reversed it. Where maybe it was an

1109
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:21.840
eighty percent success rate back then, now it's a ninety

1110
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:26.880
eight percent failure rate. Right, It's like, how did that happen? Dude? Yeah?

1111
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:29.800
The culture, dude, there was a level process the mills

1112
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:32.960
aft that like keep that hole and that becomes like

1113
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:37.119
its own culture instead of what it started as. Dude,

1114
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:41.639
think about it. Infistrates the meetings in the cities. Yeah, dude,

1115
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:44.440
the meetings are an interesting thing.

1116
00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:46.599
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever have you

1117
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:51.400
ever like judged somebody for not having tattoos.

1118
00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:53.920
The world that I come from, Yes, because.

1119
00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:56.360
I mean I'm covered, I'm covered, and I never looked

1120
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:58.639
at somebody. I've been like, oh, they don't have tattoos. Right,

1121
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:02.039
But for a long time, people without tattoos judged us,

1122
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:06.480
judged us. Right. I've never judged somebody for going to

1123
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:08.159
a toll step meeting. Yeah, but I've heard a lot

1124
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:10.920
of judgment for people who don't sure If you're a

1125
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:13.159
tol stepper and then you find somebody who's recovered and

1126
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.039
you don't and that's an interesting I have a theory.

1127
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:18.400
What's that I have a theory on this, right, and

1128
00:56:18.519 --> 00:56:22.960
this is what it says, principles before personalities, right, And

1129
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:27.079
what I is what I think happened. Uh, sponsorship became

1130
00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:31.239
this thing that almost became the program, right, and then

1131
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:34.320
so Frank's gonna sponsor me. I'm gonna sponsor Frank. Okay,

1132
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.400
So now I'm sponsoring Frank, and I'm told what worked

1133
00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:39.519
for me, and now if you don't do it work

1134
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.480
for me, then you're doing it wrong. And I'm just

1135
00:56:42.519 --> 00:56:44.679
reinforcing my story to myself.

1136
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:45.440
Right.

1137
00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:49.119
So now I've just completely injected personality into the process.

1138
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.320
I think that's what I get that, Yeah, you are

1139
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.599
a story for you that's not about Well, so we

1140
00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:57.840
have struggled with initially. We're not there now but when

1141
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.280
I first started, and it still can happen. And there's

1142
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:04.440
a lot of misconceptions about our position because we don't

1143
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:05.920
have to steps on the wall. It's not part of

1144
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.199
our programming. We don't have any of it in our programming,

1145
00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:12.840
not at all, right, And people have been confused about that,

1146
00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:17.039
and my simple answer is like, well, I'm tasked with

1147
00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:19.960
a much a big calling, which is to care for

1148
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:23.280
you and to provide you the best possible treatment for

1149
00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:26.519
something that I'm being reimbursed for. It doesn't make any

1150
00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:28.039
sense to give you something you can do for free

1151
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:29.760
down the street. So let me give you. Let me

1152
00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:32.480
give you this quality treatment experience and then send you

1153
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:34.159
to go or take right.

1154
00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:34.480
Sure.

1155
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:40.920
And so we had a ur situation where the doctor

1156
00:57:41.079 --> 00:57:44.079
was like, why is this person not on medication? And

1157
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:45.880
they actually denied the days and I said, well, they're

1158
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:47.880
not on meds, like he basically trying to tell us

1159
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:50.480
we weren't doing our job. And I said, well, this

1160
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:54.440
person is physically engaging in physical activity and hermetic stressors

1161
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:56.960
on a regular basis and it's being properly does so

1162
00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.400
they don't need the medication. What they need is more

1163
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:02.880
time in this process because the what the And so

1164
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:05.320
he didn't understand it. Yeah, I had to explain how

1165
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:08.559
exercise affects the brain to a doctor, right and then

1166
00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:10.880
so it took a lot and he ended up switching.

1167
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:13.519
I will give him credit, he ended up switching his position,

1168
00:58:13.599 --> 00:58:15.840
but dude, it took me. And I talked to my

1169
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:18.519
friend who I'm like, it's a doctor, and I'm like

1170
00:58:18.519 --> 00:58:20.559
bro I had to like explain, he said, oh, dude,

1171
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:22.159
that we don't get any training on.

1172
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:27.119
Dude, six hours on average between every different discipline within

1173
00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:33.440
So the medical infrastructure, like medical academia is a religion, right,

1174
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:36.559
and they come out priests of a religion, right, And

1175
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.320
we look at these priests, right, and it's the same

1176
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:40.679
thing in any religious structure.

1177
00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:40.880
Right.

1178
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:43.639
We go to these priests for the answers, okay, and

1179
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.440
then we take what the priest says as gospel. Right.

1180
00:58:46.519 --> 00:58:49.480
And so my doctor he always says, when we prescribe

1181
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:53.159
a medication, this isn't a gospel. This is a recommendation

1182
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:57.559
and a suggestion. So if it says dose X, Y

1183
00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.239
and Z, that's a suggestion for if you're to ma

1184
00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:03.719
and we're not talking about like hardcore psychmds for people, well,

1185
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:06.599
this is a whole other issue. But like you know,

1186
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:11.039
I'll continue with this and then I'll but these are suggestions, right.

1187
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:13.920
It's like, why are you on an anti anxiety medication

1188
00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:16.639
if you're not anxious and you're taking it daily? And

1189
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:19.679
the problem is people come into treatment and we give

1190
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:23.159
them diagnosis immediately, especially at the residential level, because they

1191
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:26.800
got to fit a clinical criteria to be clinically appropriate

1192
00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:28.840
for the services. And so what do we do. They

1193
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:32.039
got clinical anxiety, they got clinical depression, and then we

1194
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:36.239
put them on the appropriate medication for these for these diagnoses. Right.

1195
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:41.079
The problem is they've earned that depression, they've earned that anxiety,

1196
00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:44.079
and you are going to again alleviate the symptoms. Right,

1197
00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:46.559
It's like, why are we doing that when we fully

1198
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:49.199
understand and fully are aware that people who do not

1199
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:53.360
actually have these mental diagnoses, the medication will give it

1200
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.800
to them. Right. If you don't have clinical depression and

1201
00:59:56.840 --> 00:59:58.719
you get on a depression medication, it will give it

1202
00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:01.400
to you. If you don't have clinical anxiety and you

1203
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:03.840
get on anxiety medication, it will give it to you.

1204
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:06.800
So now three months down the road, yeah, you've got

1205
01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:10.760
anxiety and depression. Of course you do. Right, And it's like, again,

1206
01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:13.360
you go to this, you participate in this religion, You're

1207
01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:15.400
gonna go to the priest, You're gonna get your prescription,

1208
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:18.760
just like a church, and then you take that prescription

1209
01:00:18.800 --> 01:00:21.840
as gospel. So what we're doing is we're saying, look,

1210
01:00:22.719 --> 01:00:28.880
there's medical intervention, there's social intervention, and then there's medication intervention. Right,

1211
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:32.280
people don't separate the medical intervention from the medication intervention.

1212
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:37.480
And so doctor Shaw, neurologists, addiction addiction medicine specialists just

1213
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.679
celebrated thirteen years, right, And what he's saying is the

1214
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:44.719
average person who has depression goes through a fourteen year

1215
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.039
episode where they're trying to get their medication right. On average,

1216
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:50.800
fourteen years, fourteen years. What he's saying is that most

1217
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:54.719
addicts are being misdiagnosed upfront. They don't actually have this stuff,

1218
01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:57.920
They've got something else, right, And so part of the

1219
01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:01.000
model is like, Okay, we're just going to take them off.

1220
01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:03.440
We're not gonna do a medication intervention. We're gonna do

1221
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.280
a medical intervention. We're going to raise awareness, we're gonna

1222
01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:08.719
raise education levels, and then we're gonna feed them into

1223
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.880
a lower level of care. Right, because the magic happens,

1224
01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:14.599
and everybody can stay sober in a bubble. Right, You

1225
01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:16.280
can lock somebody in a room and they will stay

1226
01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:21.199
sober forever, guaranteed. Right, But everybody can stay sober in

1227
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:24.639
this twenty eight day bubble. Right. What are the relapse statistics.

1228
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:28.679
It's staggering, first of all, but they're relapsing in ninety days.

1229
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:31.920
Who's actually relapsing is the people that aren't engaging in

1230
01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:35.840
their treatment episode. In Slain the Dragon, William White said

1231
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:39.519
that pre eighty five, pre treatment industry, there was a

1232
01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:42.639
normalized phrase that everybody said, right, it was length of

1233
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:47.320
exposure to treatment dictates outcomes. Okay, twenty eight day model

1234
01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:49.480
gets implemented and they drop two words, and it sounds

1235
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:54.639
very similar still, but now it's exposure to treatment dictates outcomes.

1236
01:01:55.320 --> 01:01:58.360
Sounds very similar. Most people that don't actually like look

1237
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:00.639
at what's being said, they'd say that it's the same thing.

1238
01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:02.840
But what do you used to say? Was the longer

1239
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:05.079
you interact with your treatment episode, the greater the album

1240
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:07.199
is Now it's if you go to treatment, you'll get.

1241
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:10.760
Better, which is when? Why? So for us, I totally

1242
01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:12.760
agree with you, and we've put it into action in

1243
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:16.400
that we've basically eliminated I'll never do residential and I

1244
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:18.760
will never do detalks. And I'm saying that out loud.

1245
01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:23.599
We are going, I'm gonna be after care talking.

1246
01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:26.599
Problem with you saying that though you're aware of this,

1247
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:29.360
and so if you don't do it, who's gonna.

1248
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:36.320
Well that's cool, And I think shows like this talking

1249
01:02:36.360 --> 01:02:40.639
about it, I will I share my I'm willing to

1250
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:44.239
share what I know with We partner with residential programs

1251
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:46.239
and I do my model in their program. So like

1252
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:49.760
we have Are you familiar with Stone River and San Antonio?

1253
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:52.360
So we're we just partnered with them. We were with

1254
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:55.920
Alamo previously where it was like they bring their clients

1255
01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:58.519
to our center. Yeah, we run them through our group

1256
01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:00.480
process a couple times a week and will go and

1257
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:04.440
introduce the concepts and so I'm able to give them that.

1258
01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:11.119
But from a neuroscience perspective, I want them after some

1259
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:13.679
settling and I want them where the real change can

1260
01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:15.239
take place, and I want to start to impact their

1261
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:20.639
plasticity and do all that with aftercare. So we've eliminated

1262
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:23.880
the transitions. That's a big step. Any sort of change

1263
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:26.119
is where a lot of relapse will happen when you're

1264
01:03:26.119 --> 01:03:28.800
stepping down from residential to but even in aftercare going

1265
01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:32.000
from PHP to IOP and IOP out. So if in

1266
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:35.440
traditional models, where do you get your treatment from is

1267
01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:38.880
a mental health or substance use recovery center that's licensed,

1268
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:40.719
So when the treatment is over, meaning you're at the

1269
01:03:41.199 --> 01:03:43.760
let's just take IOP minimum nine hours but a lot

1270
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:46.239
of people are doing four day week billing. Now, so

1271
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:48.920
let's say twelve hours a week, what are you doing

1272
01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:50.800
with that time when it's over and you're not going

1273
01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:53.119
to the center because most programs aren't set up for that.

1274
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:55.320
Yeah, and the end the one hundred and sixty eight hours,

1275
01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:56.239
what are you doing.

1276
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:58.159
For that too? But I'm just talking about like you're

1277
01:03:58.239 --> 01:04:00.599
in your life and you've spent three hours day for

1278
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:04.559
the last ninety days, four times a week doing a

1279
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:06.880
process and that goes away. Now I've got to fill

1280
01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:09.800
that time. You can't do it at your center because

1281
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:13.760
they're doing group So our clients will leave that therapy

1282
01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:16.719
miliu and join the fitness classes in the morture, so

1283
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:19.480
they're in the same building, they see similar faces, they

1284
01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:22.119
have access to the coaches. So it's basically like a

1285
01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:26.719
community center where they're and they can be there indefinitely, right.

1286
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.480
You just have to like obviously abide by certain rules

1287
01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:31.840
and that kind of thing. But the other thing I

1288
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:33.320
wanted to ask you about because I think you would

1289
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.599
know so I can't remember, but in Slaying the Dragon,

1290
01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:42.400
William White talks about there was a period where we

1291
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.159
were really headed for a very solid trajectory, like we

1292
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:47.280
were going to be under the medical model. We were

1293
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.039
like moving in that direction, and then something took place

1294
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:52.920
historically and it put us in this like step child

1295
01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:54.559
thing over here. Do you know what I'm talking about?

1296
01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:58.559
Nineteen eighty five? Yeah, yeah, nineteen eighty five. And ultimately

1297
01:04:58.599 --> 01:05:02.159
what it was was we started this is when I like,

1298
01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:05.079
I don't remember the language that he uses, but this

1299
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:08.239
is my interpretation of it. The medical industry and the

1300
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:10.920
pharmaceutical industry were like, there's a demographic of people who

1301
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.159
are accessing care through emergency rooms. How do we monetize that?

1302
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:15.000
Right?

1303
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.719
And then they saw this thing seventy six percent success

1304
01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:20.480
rate at the time, right, and they were they were

1305
01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:24.400
on a steady rise, right, The field of recovery was

1306
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:27.119
on a steady rise for helping people, and they were like, oh,

1307
01:05:28.039 --> 01:05:30.159
let's do it there, right. And then do you know

1308
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:33.360
how the twenty eight day model came about twenty eight

1309
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.840
So the military and professionals used to be able to

1310
01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:39.440
get two weeks of vacation time and then two weeks

1311
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:43.119
paid leave, right, And so they were filtering people in

1312
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:45.559
and they were like, oh, okay, so this is these

1313
01:05:45.559 --> 01:05:48.679
are billable and it's paid for, so let's just do

1314
01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:51.119
this with everybody, right. So then the twenty eight day

1315
01:05:51.159 --> 01:05:56.320
model became the thing, yeah, completely, because remember fiduciary obligations

1316
01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.159
to maximize profits, right, and so they were like, can

1317
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:03.440
cut cost and we can refilter people, right, and so

1318
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:07.199
they're like, Okay, let's start this. So then the huge

1319
01:06:07.239 --> 01:06:10.239
transition happens out of the field of recovery into the

1320
01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:15.000
treatment industry, and then Obamacare happens, parody happens, all this stuff.

1321
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:18.679
We married ourselves to the twenty eight day model, the

1322
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:22.599
twelve step model, the insurance companies, and I mean there's

1323
01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:25.320
a graph you can see it eighty five. It's like

1324
01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:28.679
pre eighty five, pre eighty five, pre eighty five, eighty five,

1325
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:31.639
eighty five, post eighty five, post to like today, and

1326
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:35.679
it's just plummeting like like a rock, right, And it's like,

1327
01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:38.800
how did we end up here? Right? Is that a

1328
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:41.760
bunch of smart people got together and they realized that

1329
01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:46.760
a huge demographic, a huge population of the country are

1330
01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:49.920
costing them money and they wanted to monetize it. Bit

1331
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:52.840
that's what I ultimately got from all that information.

1332
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.920
Well, he talks to about like calling it a graduation.

1333
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:01.280
Oh yeah, complete graduation. Yeah yeah.

1334
01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:03.920
Do you ever read that book? It's in my office.

1335
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:05.760
I'll have to let you borrow the dude.

1336
01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:08.480
It's a volume. I mean, right, it's a nice it's

1337
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:11.079
a nice sized book. But dude, when I'm like, I started,

1338
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:13.000
I read it the first time. I do this thing.

1339
01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:15.159
I'll read a book the first time, no mars, and

1340
01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:17.239
then I'll go through it a second time in market right,

1341
01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:20.000
And the first time reading through it, I was like

1342
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:23.960
what the fuck, like sitting at my desk, like, I

1343
01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:26.840
can't believe that this is in a book and nobody's

1344
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:29.639
talking about this. And ultimately, when I started the podcast,

1345
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:32.400
that was the information I was trying to get. Oh yeah, right,

1346
01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:34.480
That's why I was asking them the questions and like

1347
01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:36.639
and then I would get to these hard questions and

1348
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:38.800
they'd be like, you know, I gotta go. I got

1349
01:07:38.920 --> 01:07:41.000
a lunch. And it's like, dude, you said we were

1350
01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:44.199
here for three hours, Like what happened? It's forty five minutes, right,

1351
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:46.760
And it's like, but the reality is the information is

1352
01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:50.519
out there. The problem is you gotta then look at yourself, right,

1353
01:07:50.599 --> 01:07:53.280
you have to actually examine I think who was it

1354
01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:57.880
Socrates or one of the early philosophers said a life

1355
01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:00.320
that an unexamined life, is not a life for living.

1356
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:05.400
Right at the curious somebody said it, right, And it's like,

1357
01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:10.039
I think people in recovery have a leg up on

1358
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:14.079
their introspection, right, we have to examine ourselves on a

1359
01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:17.359
level that and this is what I say the world,

1360
01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:20.039
the majority of the world stays in the solution at

1361
01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:22.960
all costs, and they avoid the problem. We're coming from

1362
01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:26.039
the problem towards the solution, and so the lens that

1363
01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:28.760
we have is just fundamentally different. We are problem solvers,

1364
01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:31.800
were overachievers, like the average alcoholic. You read the stories

1365
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:33.600
in the back and it's like they get in recovery

1366
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:37.039
and they take over businesses. Right, It's like, okay, well,

1367
01:08:38.359 --> 01:08:40.760
if you've been on that trajectory and now you hit

1368
01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:43.119
this roadblock that says we have to re examine yourself,

1369
01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:46.399
it's like, oh shit, my whole identity in recovery is

1370
01:08:46.399 --> 01:08:49.159
built around this thing, and now it's being questioned I'm

1371
01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:52.319
out of here, right, And it's like, yeah, but what

1372
01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:54.680
you're claiming, right, this is the disconnect that I talk

1373
01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:57.720
about in the recovery indus or the treatment industry is

1374
01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:03.079
the product that we're delivering isn't matching what we're saying

1375
01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:06.359
on our face, right. It's like you're promising this, you're

1376
01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:08.600
saying this, if you send little Jimmy to us, we'll

1377
01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:11.760
get them better, right. And it's like, no, it won

1378
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:14.600
only get him better until you stop paying, and then

1379
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:16.000
we're gonna drop him on his head and we're gonna

1380
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:19.600
blame him, right. And so it's like, I don't know

1381
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:23.439
my whole I got to see under the hood of

1382
01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:27.880
the treatment industry as an owner, and it blew my

1383
01:09:27.920 --> 01:09:31.199
mind right because all the things that I had witnessed

1384
01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:34.239
and participated in from the client side, I realized that,

1385
01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:38.600
like there's sop around this, like this is actually their intention, right,

1386
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:41.079
And I was like, oh my gosh, Like and then

1387
01:09:41.159 --> 01:09:43.760
I started asking these questions because I was like, I

1388
01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:46.039
gotta do something different. I can't do this because ultimately,

1389
01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:48.760
at the end of the day, when I'm looking at

1390
01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:50.840
myself in the mirror, brush my teeth and shaving, I

1391
01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:52.600
have to look at myself and be able to answer

1392
01:09:52.680 --> 01:09:56.039
this one question, right, am I fulfilling my obligations to

1393
01:09:56.079 --> 01:09:59.720
my clients because they're paying for my lifestyle. There's the

1394
01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:02.319
call is the house? My kids going to private school?

1395
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:05.920
Am I fulfilling that obligation? How many treatment owners are

1396
01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:08.199
asking that? Right?

1397
01:10:08.920 --> 01:10:12.319
There's two right here? Okay, what's the metric? Like, so

1398
01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:15.359
I could talk to you for hours, dude about your shit?

1399
01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:18.319
Like so the so you we talked earlier about you know,

1400
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:21.399
outcomes and stuff, right, Okay, I actually had to. I

1401
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:26.920
was so frustrated with like, what is the definition of success?

1402
01:10:27.039 --> 01:10:31.920
What's what's wellness? I had to create one. Yeah, we

1403
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:34.720
we literally invented our Like it's I want to see that.

1404
01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:36.359
I'll give it to you for sure. You want me

1405
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:39.600
to read it? Sure? Yeah, wellness depth?

1406
01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:40.000
And I did.

1407
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:43.800
I'm pretty in the like I'm researching and doing a

1408
01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:45.479
lot of stuff on a regular This took me like

1409
01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:47.439
over a year to figure out. Like I played around

1410
01:10:47.439 --> 01:10:50.720
with so many different definitions. So wellness is a dynamic,

1411
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:57.399
trainable state of physiological regulation that enables mental clarity, emotional stability,

1412
01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:01.479
social connection, and purposeful act That's amazing. And I have

1413
01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:03.039
to read it because it's new to us, so I'm

1414
01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:05.840
still like digesting it. But so, yeah, I had to

1415
01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:07.520
come up. I was like, if I'm going to measure something,

1416
01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:09.560
I got to be able to define it first, right,

1417
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:12.000
So it's like I never I was never okay with

1418
01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:14.560
And the reason is because at eighteen years sober, I

1419
01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:16.319
almost took my own life. So like I got eighteen

1420
01:11:16.399 --> 01:11:19.239
years of abstinence and I'm I'm not fucking well, you

1421
01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:21.640
know what I mean. I'm like in a really bad spot.

1422
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:23.960
So it's like, what are we really measuring? And I said, well,

1423
01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:25.399
if I'm going to measure it, I have to be

1424
01:11:25.439 --> 01:11:26.239
able to define it.

1425
01:11:27.199 --> 01:11:30.359
So for sure, right, have you seen the peer support

1426
01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:34.119
the actual peer support metrics for success. There's twelve twelve

1427
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:40.880
domains and my favorites. It's like improving provider interactions, lowering

1428
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:44.479
interactions with law enforcement. There's like twelve of these, right,

1429
01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:46.600
and so I've like adopted that. But check this out.

1430
01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:52.399
This is samsa's definite working definition of recovery. Recovery is

1431
01:11:52.399 --> 01:11:55.239
a process of change in which individuals work to improve

1432
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:59.399
their physical and mental health, manage or overcome symptoms of

1433
01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:02.760
mental health or substance abuse disorders, and make informed, healthy

1434
01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:06.039
choices that support overall well being. Recovery is not a

1435
01:12:06.079 --> 01:12:09.600
single event or an endpoint, but sustained individual process that

1436
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:14.800
helps that emphasizes hope, self determination and personal empowerment. Dude.

1437
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:19.399
That's so. This is the government agency that oversees regulation.

1438
01:12:19.720 --> 01:12:24.399
And it's like you go into any treatment center and

1439
01:12:24.399 --> 01:12:27.199
it's like have you ever even seen this? Right, It's

1440
01:12:27.239 --> 01:12:30.439
like one of the things that I kind of point out.

1441
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:33.359
I want to say this, I'm not anti twelve step, right.

1442
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:36.399
I push people in as much as I can. It's

1443
01:12:36.439 --> 01:12:43.159
a huge part of my story. And ultimately a lot

1444
01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:45.840
of people think that what I'm saying is anti twelve

1445
01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:49.039
step and it's not right. It's they're just reading between

1446
01:12:49.039 --> 01:12:52.439
the lines, kind of extrapolating their own I've had that

1447
01:12:52.479 --> 01:12:56.000
experience myself happen, Yeah, dude, I mean it's and I

1448
01:12:56.000 --> 01:13:00.560
don't blame them whatever. It's like again reinforcing their their identity.

1449
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:03.039
Right when they say, like, oh, he's anti twelve step,

1450
01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:08.720
the reality of the situation is multiple pathways is a

1451
01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:13.159
real thing, right, Like, and I don't have the twelve

1452
01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:15.079
and twelve hung up around here because I have the

1453
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:19.199
same philosophy. Right, treatment happens in facilities. You've got to

1454
01:13:19.199 --> 01:13:21.960
go build a community, right, And it's like doctor Schotte

1455
01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:24.119
told me something. It blew my mind. Do you see

1456
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:28.119
medical direct Yes, okay, do you know how to build

1457
01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:32.279
neurological pathway? Like, what is the actual thing that builds

1458
01:13:32.279 --> 01:13:35.119
a new neurological pathway? It's a new thought.

1459
01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:37.640
Yeah, I was gonna say novelty. It's just not new

1460
01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:39.039
anything new. That brain loves it.

1461
01:13:39.159 --> 01:13:43.279
Yeah, and so now the new thoughts been had, the

1462
01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:45.720
reinforcement needs to happen in order to make that a

1463
01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:48.520
preferred pathway, because right now, what's the preferred pathway? And

1464
01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:49.800
early recovery using.

1465
01:13:49.960 --> 01:13:52.439
Drinking repetition strength is and confirmed.

1466
01:13:52.640 --> 01:13:55.119
Sure. Yeah, do you think about like building a muscle,

1467
01:13:55.159 --> 01:13:58.039
it's literally yeah, Repsi's the same thing. But do we

1468
01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:00.760
talk about this? This is every day in group, dude, this.

1469
01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:03.000
Is our group. I gotta I gotta get out there

1470
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.319
and take a piece of paper and fold it. There's

1471
01:14:05.319 --> 01:14:07.920
a brain exercise and you'd like, like there is white

1472
01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:09.399
matter in the brain. People don't know that. But so

1473
01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:12.640
it's not rectangular. But if you fold it, those pathways

1474
01:14:12.640 --> 01:14:16.239
and reinforce, like if you it's like a frequency quantity duration, right,

1475
01:14:16.279 --> 01:14:18.079
So if you have if you do it often, you

1476
01:14:18.119 --> 01:14:19.159
do it a lot, and you've done it for a

1477
01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:21.159
long time. Those pathways are going to be. So you

1478
01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:24.039
can fold it and keep the line really crisp, and

1479
01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:26.039
that's like what you're coming in with, right, And then

1480
01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:27.760
you get a new thought. You fold it at an

1481
01:14:27.800 --> 01:14:30.319
angle and it's like a really light line and if

1482
01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:32.680
you hold it up to a group, people will see

1483
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:34.359
and it just clicks with them. You're like, dude, I'm like,

1484
01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:35.720
this is what you're coming in with. This is your

1485
01:14:35.720 --> 01:14:40.239
addictive pathway you've been Dopamine is the biggest digger of pathways.

1486
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:42.319
It's the if you're going to hire a worker in

1487
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:45.439
your brain. Nothing does it more than dopamine. And if

1488
01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.000
you've been doing opiates or drugs for a long time,

1489
01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:50.239
guess how deep those pathways are.

1490
01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:52.560
And then know what I tell people, give them a visual.

1491
01:14:52.800 --> 01:14:55.640
You remember those old like Looney Tunes commercials where somebody

1492
01:14:55.680 --> 01:14:57.399
would paste back and forth and then it would fast

1493
01:14:57.439 --> 01:14:59.680
forward and they're like up to their neck like that's

1494
01:14:59.720 --> 01:15:03.239
how we've reinforced these pathways. Right. And then doctor Shaw says,

1495
01:15:03.279 --> 01:15:07.000
it's like diverging a river. Right, it will diverge, but

1496
01:15:07.079 --> 01:15:08.079
it will switch back if.

1497
01:15:07.960 --> 01:15:10.720
You let Yeah. Electrical impulses because it's like chemistry and

1498
01:15:10.760 --> 01:15:13.840
electricity and they'll hop over and anything. That's that's why

1499
01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:17.039
dishonesty is so dangerous because a lot of times the

1500
01:15:17.079 --> 01:15:20.239
dishonesty is connected to the shame. Shame's connected to use

1501
01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:23.880
and so you start people who relapse, right. They It's

1502
01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:26.520
like everyone says resentments a number one offender. I'm like, no, No,

1503
01:15:26.560 --> 01:15:29.119
dishonesty is number one. Certain people lie to themselves, they

1504
01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:31.840
start lying to other people, and then that pathways familiar.

1505
01:15:32.039 --> 01:15:34.239
That's an old that's something that's been deeply ingrained. How

1506
01:15:34.239 --> 01:15:35.640
many times did you have to lie to get away

1507
01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:38.760
with getting hot? It's totally connected, right, So you start

1508
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:41.720
doing that, before you know it, you're picking.

1509
01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:44.840
Up It's such a dangerous thing, right, like other people,

1510
01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:47.439
we can lie to other people, but when you start

1511
01:15:47.479 --> 01:15:52.319
lying to yourself, Oh, dude, talk about a recipe for disaster,

1512
01:15:52.399 --> 01:15:55.119
because then we're delusional too. We'll believe our lies. I

1513
01:15:55.159 --> 01:15:58.439
believe my lies, dude. I thought it was the gospel truth, right,

1514
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:01.199
Like I'm built for this life and this and that.

1515
01:16:01.359 --> 01:16:03.399
And it's like, dude, I got out into recovery and

1516
01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:05.039
I was like, dude, I'm not built for that. I'm

1517
01:16:05.119 --> 01:16:09.439
not that person. Yeah, right, It's like ah. Like looking back,

1518
01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:12.640
it's like I believe and you could have hooked me

1519
01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:14.319
up to a light detective test and I would have

1520
01:16:14.399 --> 01:16:16.920
told you this is who I am and this is why,

1521
01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:18.840
and it's like, fuck.

1522
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:20.680
Well, that's like that. We say belief is stronger than

1523
01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:24.279
fact all the time, and a lot of people in

1524
01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:27.680
active addiction have a belief about themselves that's not true.

1525
01:16:28.279 --> 01:16:31.359
That's another thing, right, like the self image issue, Like

1526
01:16:31.399 --> 01:16:33.640
the story that we've built around who we are and

1527
01:16:33.640 --> 01:16:36.479
why we are that way is so strong, and the

1528
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:39.960
reality is in that state, we're just that little kid

1529
01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:41.319
trying to protect ourselves.

1530
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:43.239
Absolutely well, and we don't have trust. That's the thing

1531
01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:44.960
that we work on, is like you, if you're going

1532
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:48.079
to reclaim yourself, because I don't teach people that they're

1533
01:16:48.119 --> 01:16:50.079
trying to become someone new, they're just it's a different

1534
01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:53.079
version of themselves. But if you're going to reclaim yourself,

1535
01:16:53.079 --> 01:16:55.479
it has to start with building trust with you. And

1536
01:16:56.520 --> 01:17:00.600
so many people with addiction issues have self cons been

1537
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:03.319
externally validated for so long they don't even know how

1538
01:17:03.359 --> 01:17:06.840
to begin the process of saying so that's why he'sn't

1539
01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:09.560
currently in the class. But I will tell you to

1540
01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:13.119
check out Mark England's in Lifted program. I've done this

1541
01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:15.319
thing a long time and I watched him do a

1542
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:16.960
workshop and I was like, it's one of those things

1543
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:19.680
where you go holy shit, Like I don't think this

1544
01:17:19.760 --> 01:17:22.079
dude knows what he has because I know where it

1545
01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:26.079
can really affect people, and it has to do with

1546
01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:31.039
reframing but meaning it literally changes belief.

1547
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:34.560
Well, that's a big problem too, is purpose, right, like

1548
01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:37.720
you get in recovery. How many people just enter recovery

1549
01:17:37.760 --> 01:17:41.119
with a purpose, right, and how do you give them

1550
01:17:41.119 --> 01:17:44.159
a purpose? Like, dude, it's like so crazy. Have you

1551
01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:47.000
guys read It's a book called Addiction as an Attachment Disorder.

1552
01:17:47.039 --> 01:17:52.039
It's attachment theory, No, dude, it dude. The most amazing

1553
01:17:52.039 --> 01:17:54.039
outcome like thing that I got out of it was

1554
01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:59.399
I was substituting healthy attachment for effective attachment in the drugs.

1555
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:02.520
Yeah right, because it did the exact same thing every time.

1556
01:18:02.920 --> 01:18:04.520
It's not going to give me negative feedback. It's not

1557
01:18:04.520 --> 01:18:06.159
going to tell me how shitty of a person I am.

1558
01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:10.039
And it's consistent, right, More drugs and alcohol are more

1559
01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:12.920
consistent than people, and most of us are just looking

1560
01:18:12.920 --> 01:18:13.600
for that consistence.

1561
01:18:13.640 --> 01:18:16.960
Absolutely Safety, Feel Safe Safety. There's another great book. I

1562
01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:18.960
off to send you the title. But some people have

1563
01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:20.920
a hard time because you can't accept, you know, certain

1564
01:18:21.159 --> 01:18:23.720
dogmatic practices. You can't accept any other sort of not

1565
01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:25.359
at all. And I don't do this with clients because

1566
01:18:25.359 --> 01:18:27.079
it can throw them off, but I do present it

1567
01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:30.479
to people, like the idea that addiction is a learning disorder.

1568
01:18:31.199 --> 01:18:32.399
It's a phenomenal theory.

1569
01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:34.159
You got to send me the book. Yeah, You've got

1570
01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:35.880
to send me Yeah, because.

1571
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:38.640
It's tied to the motivational learning. Yeah, you know, and

1572
01:18:38.680 --> 01:18:40.840
when I really break down, like the dude, how the

1573
01:18:40.840 --> 01:18:42.119
brain works? Motivation?

1574
01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:45.800
Yeah, I tell people all the time, trying to build

1575
01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:48.399
a life off motivation is so fucked up, Like how

1576
01:18:48.399 --> 01:18:51.439
are you going to do that? Because your motivation is

1577
01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:53.920
kind of dictated by how you feel. So I could

1578
01:18:53.960 --> 01:18:57.439
be motivated all day to do whatever, and then I

1579
01:18:57.439 --> 01:18:58.960
go to sleep and I'm having a shitty day and

1580
01:18:58.960 --> 01:18:59.800
I'm not motivated too.

1581
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:01.000
Yeah.

1582
01:19:01.079 --> 01:19:02.800
Right, And so it's like I tell people all the time,

1583
01:19:02.840 --> 01:19:06.239
it's it's discipline and dedication. Right. You can be disciplined

1584
01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:09.560
until you're dedicated, or dedicated until you're disciplined. But if

1585
01:19:09.560 --> 01:19:13.039
you've got one of those in place with your early recovery,

1586
01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:18.880
you got a pretty good shot. Discipline is everything. Discipline, dude, everything.

1587
01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:20.600
Taylor just came on the show and he was like,

1588
01:19:20.680 --> 01:19:24.640
if you've got relational problem, it's an emotional discipline issue.

1589
01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:26.800
If you are fat and you can't get off the couch,

1590
01:19:26.920 --> 01:19:31.319
discipline issue. If you've got business issues, discipline dude. He

1591
01:19:31.439 --> 01:19:34.920
was like, six months, that's all it takes, right, You

1592
01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:37.680
take six months and focus and be intentional about discipline,

1593
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:38.119
your life.

1594
01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:38.840
Will change in.

1595
01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:44.039
Yeah, that's what he says. Yeah. I always say, fuck

1596
01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:49.279
your feelings, dude. Discipline doesn't care about your feelings. Feelings

1597
01:19:49.279 --> 01:19:52.239
don't give a fuck, they don't. Yeah, you know, but

1598
01:19:52.279 --> 01:19:59.840
they're so powerful. Yeah you know. And this is admission though, well, okay,

1599
01:20:00.279 --> 01:20:03.159
clarity and mission, but it's hard to implement clarity when

1600
01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:07.039
you're coming off of drugs. Absolutely, and then mission, you know,

1601
01:20:07.119 --> 01:20:09.920
not everybody's mission is to do what we're doing right, right,

1602
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:14.720
some people like some people just aren't that's not their calling, right,

1603
01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:17.199
And but we could try to get people on this path.

1604
01:20:17.239 --> 01:20:19.439
And I really think, I really believe this that if

1605
01:20:19.439 --> 01:20:22.479
you're not helping people in recovery, then it's fucking it's

1606
01:20:22.520 --> 01:20:23.680
fucking pointless, right.

1607
01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:26.479
I really think that it goes more than that. I

1608
01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:29.279
think it's life. I really do think that that. Yeah,

1609
01:20:29.399 --> 01:20:33.439
it's like the like being it having giving back doing something.

1610
01:20:34.079 --> 01:20:38.279
I have a friend who wrestles with depression, and when

1611
01:20:38.279 --> 01:20:40.600
he's in a scenario the last time he was dealing

1612
01:20:40.640 --> 01:20:44.640
with it, I said, you know, he has resources that

1613
01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:48.199
life's pretty easy in the sense of like you're he's like,

1614
01:20:48.239 --> 01:20:49.960
you know, and so I'm like, dude, do you have

1615
01:20:50.079 --> 01:20:52.520
like anything that you're super passionate about, Like are you

1616
01:20:52.600 --> 01:20:55.359
giving back? Are you? And he started to look at him,

1617
01:20:55.439 --> 01:20:57.359
like look at it and go, oh wait, I'm really not.

1618
01:20:57.479 --> 01:20:59.359
I said, I would encourage you to find something, whether

1619
01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:02.439
it's like at a school or like going to you

1620
01:21:02.479 --> 01:21:06.119
know whatever, it is, like, find some thing to get

1621
01:21:06.479 --> 01:21:09.520
fucking excited about so that you can feel like you're

1622
01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:12.600
It's like, for me, I gotta have meaning did My

1623
01:21:12.640 --> 01:21:14.840
purpose was established a long time ago. It took me.

1624
01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:16.800
I had to get over the imposter syndrome. But it

1625
01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:18.520
took me twenty years to get to a point where

1626
01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:20.159
I could open up my own program and like, thank

1627
01:21:20.159 --> 01:21:22.159
god I have that. But that's not for everybody like, yes,

1628
01:21:22.239 --> 01:21:24.600
you know, it could be raising a kid, it could

1629
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:27.199
be yeah, there's barriers to entry to that. The thing

1630
01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:29.840
about this is this is downstream. I don't want to

1631
01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:31.119
get that political, I guess, but.

1632
01:21:32.479 --> 01:21:35.760
There's a societal foundational issue that we've got today. It's

1633
01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:38.680
that there is no coming of age, right, it's.

1634
01:21:38.600 --> 01:21:40.239
No rights of passage, no rights of.

1635
01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:41.960
Passage, right. And you can look at all like the

1636
01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:45.239
great warrior societies, there was always that right, right, and

1637
01:21:45.279 --> 01:21:46.520
it was like you come out of this and you're

1638
01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:49.359
a man. Nowadays it's like you turn eighteen, you can vote.

1639
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:52.279
The problem is that you can go on this street

1640
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:55.479
right here and count all the menu that you see,

1641
01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:57.640
and nine or nine percent of them are just boys

1642
01:21:57.640 --> 01:22:00.680
that look like men. Right. There was no coming of age,

1643
01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:03.840
there was no evolution out of childhood into manhood. And

1644
01:22:03.880 --> 01:22:06.399
then you expect these children that look like men to

1645
01:22:06.640 --> 01:22:09.680
put on the yoke of manhood and fulfill the obligations

1646
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:12.720
with no mentorship, with no example. And that's the other problem.

1647
01:22:13.479 --> 01:22:15.520
How many men are in the home, right, and how

1648
01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:17.800
many men are in the home are so fucking stressed

1649
01:22:18.119 --> 01:22:21.399
that they're not actually present. Right. It's like, dude, there's

1650
01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:25.279
so many societal issues that have just exploded the.

1651
01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:27.319
IDG quiet desperation.

1652
01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:30.960
Dude, it's the epidemic of silent suffering that is what

1653
01:22:31.039 --> 01:22:34.760
men are suffering through currently. Yeah, I mean, dude, these

1654
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:36.880
are all society. You know, this thing that's going on

1655
01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:40.600
in California, twenty four billion dollar package that they put together,

1656
01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:44.159
they were going to solve the homeless issue, right twenty nineteen,

1657
01:22:44.159 --> 01:22:47.079
they implement it. They start distributing monies, and NGOs get

1658
01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:51.560
created and nonprofits they start doing, like all of the

1659
01:22:51.600 --> 01:22:55.159
research back on, like what did this actually do? Quadrupled? God,

1660
01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:58.840
quadrupled the homeless issue, right, And so what I say

1661
01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:02.359
is this is that you tried to societally fix an

1662
01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:06.359
individual issue with money. Does that even make logical sense

1663
01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:08.720
to you? Like, dude, and you're want and then we're

1664
01:23:08.720 --> 01:23:11.079
seeing what's going on. My favorite story is a dude

1665
01:23:11.119 --> 01:23:14.000
got a twenty million dollar award, two of them, twenty

1666
01:23:14.039 --> 01:23:16.319
six million and twenty million. The twenty million dollar dude

1667
01:23:16.520 --> 01:23:19.720
one hundred and thirty bed programming he was supposed to build.

1668
01:23:20.159 --> 01:23:22.720
He was gonna five million dollars a year for four years.

1669
01:23:22.760 --> 01:23:25.159
They give him the first five million at the end

1670
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:27.319
of it, not during At the end of it, they

1671
01:23:27.359 --> 01:23:30.880
start asking for documentation and stuff. He never built the

1672
01:23:31.119 --> 01:23:32.960
he never even broke ground on it. He got twenty

1673
01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:37.159
million dollars. Crazy. Another guy twenty six million, thirteen million

1674
01:23:37.159 --> 01:23:40.880
dollar house bought a Ferrari bought like like rents a

1675
01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:43.920
space in an office building and is like running treatment

1676
01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:44.199
out of this.

1677
01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:48.359
Yeah, it sounds like our industry is absolutely Then didn't

1678
01:23:48.520 --> 01:23:50.039
that new somem buy a bunch of his books too?

1679
01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:52.319
These books?

1680
01:23:52.680 --> 01:23:54.520
His own book? Did any book.

1681
01:23:54.680 --> 01:23:57.119
Authors do that? Yeah? For sure, I have sixty.

1682
01:23:56.800 --> 01:23:57.840
Seven thousand copies.

1683
01:23:58.359 --> 01:24:01.000
Really yeah. And you know what they do is that

1684
01:24:01.000 --> 01:24:03.479
they buy it with a credit card to fudge their

1685
01:24:03.520 --> 01:24:07.039
sales numbers, right, because they don't actually track credit card

1686
01:24:07.079 --> 01:24:10.680
sales for book sales. They just see it as a unit, right,

1687
01:24:10.720 --> 01:24:12.960
And so they're like, well, who actually bought and it's

1688
01:24:13.079 --> 01:24:15.319
you know, you can somebody out I can't do this,

1689
01:24:15.399 --> 01:24:17.039
but somebody out there can figure out who bought it.

1690
01:24:17.119 --> 01:24:20.880
They're like, oh, these motherfucker music artists do the same thing.

1691
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:26.800
Their contract company, like whoever owns their contract will buy

1692
01:24:26.840 --> 01:24:30.079
all their units right to fudge the numbers. And it's like,

1693
01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:32.720
you know, the award systems today, they're like, how many

1694
01:24:32.760 --> 01:24:34.159
people have bought their own award?

1695
01:24:35.079 --> 01:24:35.399
Right?

1696
01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:38.000
And this happens in treatment too, Like we had all

1697
01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:40.960
that shit that went on in Florida. Well, it happened everywhere,

1698
01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:43.439
but Florida was like the epicenter of like the scandal

1699
01:24:44.159 --> 01:24:48.119
where it's like, dude, the multime, like tens of millions

1700
01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:51.319
of dollars this company was worth. And what they realized

1701
01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.439
is Kenny Chapman, right, they guide them. He had the

1702
01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:59.840
full continuum. He owned Detox Residential php IOP outpatient s

1703
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:03.000
and the Dope House, and he was sending people right

1704
01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.359
back through, bro dude, how sick? Any and rightfully? So

1705
01:25:06.520 --> 01:25:09.119
he's sick doing life in prison over there? How sick? Right?

1706
01:25:09.680 --> 01:25:12.920
I want monetizing reed, but I already heard about him, dude, Yeah,

1707
01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:15.439
monetizing people suffering.

1708
01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:18.039
So I never heard anybody talk about the continuum of

1709
01:25:18.079 --> 01:25:19.079
care adding the dough posse.

1710
01:25:19.159 --> 01:25:22.600
That's that's the full because he would lock girls up

1711
01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:22.880
in there.

1712
01:25:22.960 --> 01:25:25.600
Yeah, no, that's but it's brilliant to error and talk

1713
01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:28.000
about it because that's you know, that's a good way

1714
01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:28.520
to Yeah.

1715
01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:33.000
The problem that I see is that the downstream effects

1716
01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:36.319
of that was we created business development. And this is

1717
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:38.439
why I think it should be illegal, because now we're

1718
01:25:38.439 --> 01:25:41.560
still body broker, but it's just under a different banner, right,

1719
01:25:41.680 --> 01:25:44.439
And I don't know what this actually looks like to

1720
01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:47.239
change that component. I have a really good friend. He

1721
01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:49.600
said five years from now, ten years from now, twenty

1722
01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:52.479
years from now, there will be no bead. It will

1723
01:25:52.479 --> 01:25:55.960
all be se O, right, because now you're organically attracting clients.

1724
01:25:55.680 --> 01:25:58.039
The other good thing is we're not fighting over the

1725
01:25:58.039 --> 01:26:01.039
same one percent. Now we're giving access to care to everybody.

1726
01:26:01.119 --> 01:26:02.520
Yeah. Right.

1727
01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:04.159
The problem is it's so fucking expensive.

1728
01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:07.600
People are like blown away. We don't have our we

1729
01:26:07.680 --> 01:26:10.039
have admissions, like, we don't have anyone. I don't have

1730
01:26:10.079 --> 01:26:13.000
a BDP person. And it took two years and then

1731
01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:17.079
we just in December spent money on that. I got it.

1732
01:26:17.079 --> 01:26:18.000
It was all organic.

1733
01:26:18.079 --> 01:26:21.479
Well, dude, you guys, you guys got an amazing ground

1734
01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:24.159
swell of just word to mouth, word of mouth. Right,

1735
01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:28.600
that's amazing, dude. Synergy in the in this industry, right,

1736
01:26:29.119 --> 01:26:30.239
is on two levels.

1737
01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:30.479
Right.

1738
01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:34.439
There's either you're synergistic in the business model where you're

1739
01:26:34.479 --> 01:26:36.720
just trading clients back and forth, or you're synergistic in

1740
01:26:36.760 --> 01:26:39.119
the mission. You see, I said the word in the disruption.

1741
01:26:39.239 --> 01:26:40.159
When I met I knew what you meant.

1742
01:26:40.239 --> 01:26:41.800
Yeah, I did too. I was like, but you you

1743
01:26:41.840 --> 01:26:43.760
seemed a little sensitive for me correcting your earlier, so

1744
01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:44.880
I wasn't going to say anything.

1745
01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:46.760
My skits thick, I got a hawk radsplan.

1746
01:26:46.960 --> 01:26:50.439
I just I get you like it's and it's refreshing

1747
01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:53.520
because especially when you're you know, I've told people this before.

1748
01:26:53.560 --> 01:26:55.279
I'm like, and it's not like, look at me, but

1749
01:26:55.760 --> 01:26:58.439
I don't really have anyone. Like I have mentors and

1750
01:26:58.520 --> 01:27:02.000
people who I I for other things, but who who

1751
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:04.520
do I go to to say, you're the guy that

1752
01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:08.079
disrupted the aftercare market with a completely new model, Like

1753
01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:09.319
I'm the I'm the guy.

1754
01:27:09.560 --> 01:27:09.800
Yeah.

1755
01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:11.560
So it's like when I look around, I don't I

1756
01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:13.119
have Brank I can lean on, but I don't have

1757
01:27:13.159 --> 01:27:17.319
anyone who's done it before me to kind of follow or.

1758
01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:19.760
I think we are the like the tip of the spear.

1759
01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:20.840
I think we will see this.

1760
01:27:21.199 --> 01:27:24.920
Absolutely Ya, it's definitely coming for sure. But right now,

1761
01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:27.000
when I meet somebody like yourself, I'm just like, damn,

1762
01:27:27.039 --> 01:27:28.560
that's that's awesome.

1763
01:27:28.680 --> 01:27:31.720
Yeah, And dude, it's it's like, I'm not this, dude.

1764
01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:34.199
I'm not educated and I'm not the smartest person. I

1765
01:27:34.239 --> 01:27:36.359
know people that are way smarter than me that are

1766
01:27:36.399 --> 01:27:40.119
in this industry, and it's like, how did I see this?

1767
01:27:40.399 --> 01:27:43.920
And you guys didn't, right, And it's like, I don't know, man,

1768
01:27:44.039 --> 01:27:46.760
I just I think that there's too much incentivization to

1769
01:27:46.840 --> 01:27:47.479
keep people sick.

1770
01:27:47.600 --> 01:27:50.079
I also feel like it's perspective. Could I run into

1771
01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:51.800
that myself? Like I feel like there's certain things I

1772
01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:55.279
know quite a bit about, but people give me credit

1773
01:27:55.319 --> 01:27:57.399
for something that to me is just common sense. I

1774
01:27:57.439 --> 01:27:59.520
don't know why it's not common sense to everyone, you know,

1775
01:27:59.560 --> 01:28:00.840
but for me, I was like, yeah, of course we're

1776
01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:02.159
going to move people and of course we're going to

1777
01:28:02.239 --> 01:28:04.560
do this, And people go, that's so innovative. I'm like, no,

1778
01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:07.600
it's actually ancient fucking medicine that's heard around for a really.

1779
01:28:07.319 --> 01:28:11.800
Long time, you know, dude. Yeah, And uh, for your listeners,

1780
01:28:11.840 --> 01:28:14.199
if you want to find us, you could find him

1781
01:28:14.239 --> 01:28:18.079
on Instagram at e Underscore Motion Guy. You could find

1782
01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:20.960
me at Frank Perici twenty eleven. We also have a

1783
01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:26.039
podcast at Emotion Dot Wellness dot podcast, and then our

1784
01:28:26.079 --> 01:28:30.000
handle on ig is at emotion dot Wellness dot therapy.

1785
01:28:30.359 --> 01:28:33.760
There is so you guys got websites emotion wellness, Emotion

1786
01:28:33.840 --> 01:28:36.560
wellness dot com. Okay, if they want to buy my book? Yeah,

1787
01:28:36.600 --> 01:28:38.319
and what is Paris dot com? Cool?

1788
01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:38.680
Yeah?

1789
01:28:38.720 --> 01:28:40.319
Well booked me for speaking. Oh and you gave me

1790
01:28:40.319 --> 01:28:45.119
a book, I did, dude. Yeah, Embrace Abundance yep. Yeah,

1791
01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:46.880
give me a little background on this and then and

1792
01:28:46.920 --> 01:28:48.920
then we will. Oh and you signed it? I did, brother,

1793
01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:52.760
of course. Yeah. Man, I started writing the book. God,

1794
01:28:52.840 --> 01:28:55.439
thank you God for recovery because when I you know,

1795
01:28:55.479 --> 01:28:57.720
I went to Quick. We can have a whole nother

1796
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:01.920
podcasts about this. I had a heart transplant in June

1797
01:29:01.960 --> 01:29:04.680
of June third of twenty twenty three. I went to

1798
01:29:04.840 --> 01:29:08.600
four different doctors, was misdiagnosed. I died on the table

1799
01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:11.600
on May eighth. Came back and when I met what

1800
01:29:11.720 --> 01:29:16.800
I met, I said to my wife and through a mentor,

1801
01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:18.680
he always said, whenever you go through the hardest of times,

1802
01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:20.560
you at yourself to questions, what's the gift of what

1803
01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:22.640
you're going through and what are you going to become

1804
01:29:22.640 --> 01:29:24.600
because of it? And I asked myself those questions, and

1805
01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:27.079
I said, let me write a book for Sonny, my

1806
01:29:27.199 --> 01:29:29.319
son who's like a huge purpose in my life. I

1807
01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:33.479
got emotional. I'm not going to write now, and I

1808
01:29:33.520 --> 01:29:35.399
started to write this book for him just in case

1809
01:29:35.439 --> 01:29:37.840
I would have died, he would know his father the blueprint.

1810
01:29:37.880 --> 01:29:39.720
Because I'm the one in my family, bro, you know

1811
01:29:39.720 --> 01:29:41.199
what I mean. We all come from a lot of

1812
01:29:41.239 --> 01:29:45.000
different I come from a different background, sure, and I

1813
01:29:45.119 --> 01:29:46.800
changed a lot in my life. And it was through

1814
01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:49.880
recovery and personal development of why I showed up as

1815
01:29:49.880 --> 01:29:53.079
the man I did in that hospital was never a victim,

1816
01:29:53.359 --> 01:29:56.319
you know. And I wrote that book another podcast I wrote.

1817
01:29:57.159 --> 01:30:00.199
I wrote that book and it became a bestseller. Are

1818
01:30:00.199 --> 01:30:03.239
in three countries doing Germany, kind of America. And it's

1819
01:30:03.279 --> 01:30:06.600
so grateful because right now, like the kid I'm met,

1820
01:30:06.640 --> 01:30:09.760
there's a kid in Germany. And I do social media

1821
01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:13.000
and sometimes like my reels just take off and it's

1822
01:30:13.039 --> 01:30:16.960
not about me. Yeah, I got a kid right now

1823
01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:19.319
getting a heart transplant right now? Do it in Germany.

1824
01:30:19.359 --> 01:30:22.399
As family has reached out to me on social media.

1825
01:30:22.439 --> 01:30:24.000
How many people I've done that for. That's why I

1826
01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:27.039
tell you I serve, dog, I serve around the world,

1827
01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:29.960
not just people in recovery, but people that are facing

1828
01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:33.479
real life events. You know what I mean, absolutely, and

1829
01:30:33.520 --> 01:30:35.760
that's what that book's about. It's my memoir and it's

1830
01:30:35.800 --> 01:30:39.479
also steps to my success in my life. Depe Well,

1831
01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:40.880
all right, guys, yeah, thank you very much.

1832
01:30:40.880 --> 01:30:42.359
Thank you for having us on brother.

1833
01:30:45.640 --> 01:30:48.560
Thanks for listening to My Last Relapse. I'm at Handy,

1834
01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:52.760
the founder of Harmony Growth Behavioral Health, Houston, Texas, where

1835
01:30:52.800 --> 01:30:55.960
our mission is to provide compassionate, evidence based care for

1836
01:30:56.039 --> 01:31:00.399
anyone facing addiction, mental health challenges, and co occurring dis orders.

1837
01:31:00.680 --> 01:31:04.600
Find out more at Harmony Grove eh dot com. Follow

1838
01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:08.960
and subscribe to My Last three Laps on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

1839
01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:12.800
and wherever you'd like to stream podcasts. Got a question

1840
01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:15.520
for us, Leave a message or voicemail at my Lastreelapse

1841
01:31:15.560 --> 01:31:18.880
dot com. If you're feeling overwhelmed or struggling, you don't

1842
01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:21.560
have to face it along. Reaching out for support is

1843
01:31:21.560 --> 01:31:24.760
a sign of strength and help is always available. If

1844
01:31:24.760 --> 01:31:26.680
you or anyone you know needs help, give us a

1845
01:31:26.720 --> 01:31:28.720
call twenty four hours a day at eight eight eight

1846
01:31:29.159 --> 01:31:31.279
six nine one eight two ninety five

1847
01:31:35.079 --> 01:31:35.479
Dot com