Judge Juli Mathew: How the Juvenile Mental Health Court She Built Hit an 85% Success Rate

Judge Mathew (00:00:01):
We are in situations and circumstances we do have to overcome.

Matt (00:00:04):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (00:00:05):
We do have to get over it. And these are like the trauma I went through, the trauma that she went through.

Matt (00:00:14):
I'm Matt Handy and you're listening to my last relapse. Judge Juli Mathew. How are you?

Judge Mathew (00:00:21):
Fantastic.

Matt (00:00:22):
Awesome. So thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Judge Mathew (00:00:27):
My privilege.

Matt (00:00:28):
Yeah. So we're going to talk about you and I want to talk about court and I want to talk about your soapbox issues. So let's talk about you first. Who are you? How did you get into this? Why did you get into this? And what do you do as far as court?

Judge Mathew (00:00:46):
How far back do you want to go?

Matt (00:00:48):
Well, let's just talk about you, whatever's relevant.

Judge Mathew (00:00:51):
I am an immigrant. I came to the US when I was 10 years old from India. My mom was a nurse and there was a shortage of nurses at the time. And so we came on a visa for nurses. And I grew up in Philadelphia, went to law school in Delaware. I moved to Texas right after law school. I was an attorney for about 15 years, and then I saw that my county didn't necessarily reflect the diversity that exists. It's probably one of the most diverse counties in the country.

Matt (00:01:25):
Montgomery?

Judge Mathew (00:01:26):
No, Fort Bend.

Matt (00:01:27):
Oh yeah, Fort Bend.

Judge Mathew (00:01:29):
And so I decided to run for judge. And in 2018, I became the first Indian American woman elected to the bench in the US and the first Asian American on the bench in my countywide in 2018.

Matt (00:01:44):
Wow. Okay, that's awesome. What kind of law do you practice?

Judge Mathew (00:01:49):
Before it was civil litigation.

Matt (00:01:51):
Oh, really?

Judge Mathew (00:01:52):
Yes. But I have a general jurisdiction court. It is civil up to 325,000. Criminal misdemeanors, which is anything less than a year of jail time. Juvenile, 10 to 17 year olds between ... I mean, misdemeanors and felonies. Probate cases when people die, guardianships when somebody's incapacitated or born with a disability. We do mental health commitments. When someone's having a crisis, we do eminent domain when people's properties are being taken away. Justice of the peace appeals. So you name it, we do it.

Matt (00:02:26):
Okay. I specifically want to talk about the mental health, which is actually how we met, right? We met at a mental health conference. So I want to talk about mental health and juvenile stuff. And is this a specialty court?

Judge Mathew (00:02:40):
So I have a specialty court, but the six county court judges does handle mental health commitment. I have a specialty court that I created that handles juvenile mental health.

Matt (00:02:51):
Okay. So I'm from California. There's no differentials between courts. I don't think. I've never heard of it. The first time I'd heard of a specialty court was in Texas. What is a specialty court?

Judge Mathew (00:03:04):
So it was created in mind for kids who are in the system who have mental health challenges.

Matt (00:03:09):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (00:03:10):
So with those kids, you somewhat need to handhold them because they may have medication compliance. There may have issues that other kids who just gotten into trouble may not have. So we created something that the judge, along with the defense attorney, along with the prosecutor, the juvenile probation officer, and our mental health provider, Texana, all work together to help this one child get the resources that they need. They can successfully complete probation and help in a way that they also become productive adults.

Matt (00:03:49):
Okay. So I come from a system where there is no collaboration across that aisle. It is adversarial in nature and there is no ... They're trying to lock you up and your public defender is trying to get you out of it. And on the back end though, everybody kind of understands they work for the same person. And so there's almost like a ... At least sitting on my side of the table, there's a conflict of interest as far as the representation that people get on average. And so when I hear things like a full collaboration across dial and on the bench as well, it sounds very logical. And when you're talking about outcomes, especially for kids, because kids are the criminals of the future, but kids are also the lawmakers of the future. And so-

Judge Mathew (00:04:42):
Recently I said, we're not trying to create perfect kids. We're trying to create adults who will be productive members of society.

Matt (00:04:50):
Right. Well adjusted.

Judge Mathew (00:04:51):
Yes.

Matt (00:04:52):
So do you guys keep any stats around efficacy?

Judge Mathew (00:04:57):
So initially when we started, we had the community, I've never seen this. I had community members show up when they found out that this was on the commissioner's court agenda to create because the county commissioners have to approve funding or whatever it needed. But I didn't really necessarily need funding because it was already funded through a grant. And so community members showed up to testify on behalf of it. And so one of the people that showed up, his name was Shari Ghani and there were part of an organization that has contacts all across Texas and the Mine Red Foundation. So he had, at some point, had legislatures involved in how to create this across the state. And Rice University did do a study, but we were so new. We were less than two years old at the time. They didn't have the statistics needed. But according to the statistics that we had, we had about 85% success rate.

Matt (00:05:56):
Yeah. I look at the situation that I came from, which is California and the recidivism. And when you talk about the ... Especially the court system, and then at least as far as the California Department of Corrections became the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. And when the rehabilitation park got tacked on, everything got worse. I mean, magnitudes worse. It completely deteriorated after that. And so at least for me at least, when I hear about agendas where they're looking at outcomes and measuring success and they're having success, I'm going, why aren't people modeling courts after things that are successful? Especially with kids, right? Because that's our future. And so when you're working with kids who there's specifically criminal charges, but there's a mental illness component of it, are you finding that it's like what came first, the chicken or the egg, right? Was it the mental component that came first? Because that's a hard thing too, right? Because kids, traditionally, it is much harder to diagnose their mental diagnosis, right?

Judge Mathew (00:07:19):
I mean, a lot of them cannot be categorized because some of the things, I think by bipolar, schizophrenia, all those things that can only be diagnosed later on in life.

Matt (00:07:29):
Right. Up towards the age of 25.

Judge Mathew (00:07:31):
Yep. 21, 25, I believe, something like that. So we do behavior health analysis, they meet with our psychiatrist, all of the ... So we know what areas they may need help in or how to help them. And the Texana counselor, I believe, meets with them even once or twice a week.

Matt (00:07:50):
Okay. So are these kids currently incarcerated as they go through this process or are they coming to court?

Judge Mathew (00:08:00):
We have some pre-adjudication disposition, but majority of the kids are post-disposition, so during their probationary period.

Matt (00:08:09):
Okay. So this is actually a part of their sentencing?

Judge Mathew (00:08:12):
Yes.

Matt (00:08:12):
Okay. So drug court is also post-adjudication, right. So is it kind of just the child's equivalent or a juvenile's equivalent to that? Is there drug programming and stuff like that as well?

Judge Mathew (00:08:26):
They're given that. If they have a drug issue or a substance abuse issue, they're given help to overcome that as well, yes.

Matt (00:08:34):
What percentage of them would you say, if you can guess, even, have substance abuse issues?

Judge Mathew (00:08:41):
Possibly 50%, I would say. Maybe a little bit less, but yes.

Matt (00:08:45):
Okay. And we're saying, what age is 11 to 17?

Judge Mathew (00:08:51):
10 to 17.

Matt (00:08:51):
10 to 17. Okay. Yeah. So in California, which is the system that I'm used to, so I kind of talk from that, the juvenile system is really preparatory for the adult system is typically how I've seen it work, where it's like you kind of grow into criminality based on your exposure to the system where I think if you found a way to not send these kids to a lockup situation, their outcomes would be better. So with an 85% success rate ... Well, we'll say 85, right? What you are saying or what they're saying is that you're not seeing them further down the line in court.

Judge Mathew (00:09:32):
I may see them for a violation or something, but yes, that's correct.

Matt (00:09:37):
It's amazing.

Judge Mathew (00:09:40):
I mean, this was not a Tacomi kid of mine, but kids ... I mean, yesterday, one of the probation officer popped into court and she was telling me one of the kids that I had a few years ago now is in a different county for murder. So those are things I have to step back and say," Why do we go wrong with this kid? Why couldn't we get it together? "But it's not us per se. Some of them are unfortunately born into very horrible situations, very horrible. They do not have role models. They do not have parents that are there. There's a lot of things that go wrong in their lives.

Matt (00:10:20):
Yeah. The demographics that are represented in Fort Bend, I've heard that it's very diverse, right?

Judge Mathew (00:10:27):
So it's about 20 some percent Hispanic, 20 some percent Asian American. I believe when I ran at least, it was about 39% white and 20 some percent Hispanic. So it's a good mix.

Matt (00:10:44):
And what percentage African American?

Judge Mathew (00:10:46):
I'm sorry. All of them are 20 some except the-

Matt (00:10:51):
Which is the higher population. And then the Asian American, that spans from East Asia to West Asian.

Judge Mathew (00:10:57):
All of it, yes.

Matt (00:10:57):
Okay, cool. And do you see a disparaged number in one of those specific demographics in your court?

Judge Mathew (00:11:10):
I think it is unfortunately quite a bit of black and brown kids.

Matt (00:11:14):
Okay. I mean, that is ultimately the majority anyway, is black and brown, right. And do you actually sentence kids to go serve time as well?

Judge Mathew (00:11:28):
Not from my mental health court specifically because it's post-disposition, unless if something crazy happens, but during our normal juvenile court settings, yes.

Matt (00:11:42):
Okay. Do you guys have a juvenile life sentence in Texas?

Judge Mathew (00:11:47):
No. So what happens is the TJJD, which is the Texas Juvenile Justice Department, they can hold you until 19. And at 19, they'll come back to me and I have to decide whether to send them to-

Matt (00:12:01):
TDC.

Judge Mathew (00:12:02):
... TDC or whether we're going to give them probation, further probation.

Matt (00:12:07):
So what is the max sentence? Is it just based on that age? So if they're 11, they can get an eight-year sentence or if they're-

Judge Mathew (00:12:15):
No, none of that is worked out.

Matt (00:12:17):
Oh, really?

Judge Mathew (00:12:19):
It's at a later point that ... So when I sent ... So I had a child that I had when he was 16, and he started incited violence, gang violence, and I think he started a fire at TJJD. So when he turned 17, they came to me and they wanted him in TDC, and he was throwing feces at the staff. I mean, there was just so much. There was no option for me to send him to TDC. And I can't recall the number of years, and he was in there for assault and robbery and burglary. And I remember, for example, he had pistol whipped the apartment complexes that he was robbing people in it, elderly folks. And so it was a tough case. And I mean, it's not something I enjoy. It takes a lot out of me to have to sometimes do this in regard to a child, because they're kids. I have kids, but we do the best that we can. For example, my mental health court, since we have quite a bit of black and brown kids, I made sure that my defense attorneys in there is an African American female, and the other defense attorney appointed was a male Hispanic.

(00:13:55):
And so we try to do the best that we can to help them along the ways to people that they can identify with, people that they can look up to, people ... In a particular case, there's an attorney that I know who's probably the best in Fort Bend County, and he does not like to do juvenile cases because it does take a lot out of them as well. There's a lot that gets vested into that case, and I'll have to call them up and say, "Listen, I need you to take this case. This kid needs such and such, and you are the only person that I think that can provide this, so take this case." So I mean, everything that we can do to help these kids, because at the end of the day, it costs more to incarcerate somebody than to help them become a better person and rehabilitate them.

Matt (00:14:41):
Do you guys often discuss the actual, the biological machine that is these kids around the brain developing and what is the proper route to address the specific criminality in a child that allows them to then receive justice around whatever they did, but then also have that chance to move forward based on the biological component?

Judge Mathew (00:15:11):
I definitely lean to the experts to help me and guide me in that the counselor and the psychiatrist.

Matt (00:15:17):
But you do talk about it.

Judge Mathew (00:15:18):
Yes. Yes, absolutely. So before I see the kids from the mental health court, we have a status conference in regard to where all of us sit and talk about how we're going to handle that child and what needs to be done. And I am more so the accountability partner. So prior to the mental health court forming, there was a program called Tacomi, and there is a program called Tacomi, that's where our grants come from, where the probation officer in Texana worked with the kids with the mental health, but there was no accountability partner. And the accountability partner helps in that if a parent isn't doing something that they're supposed to do, or if a child isn't doing something where they're ordered to do, I can hold them in contempt. So that didn't exist before. And so I am always, in a lot of the circumstances, have to be the tough person, tough guy, the bad cop in making sure they do what's needed.

Matt (00:16:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Without accountability in a situation like that, I know from my experience, there was no change on the horizon without any kind of accountability. As a matter of fact, I graduated from the juvenile court correctional school system, and I mean, it was a self-paced system, so I got expelled for something really stupid, and then I got arrested for the same thing. It was the same situation, and got arrested. So at 16, was put on probation for the first time, but it was a self-paced program. And so I finished high school, but I got arrested in November. I think I was actually expelled in January, and then I was graduated by April. But the reality was, I just didn't want to keep doing it, so I just did it as fast as I could. And then after that, I was just doing drugs.

Judge Mathew (00:17:23):
I wish it was that easy in that sense. Most of the kids in our GED classes, I have to push and prompt them to get it done, even do your material, do the work so that you can be done with this and move on. And we do have a lot of scholarships available after they do their GED through the technical schools. And there's a huge demand for electrical and welding and all those type of things. HVAC, those are things that are booming right now that there's a shortage of. So especially offshore work, so try to get them to do some of those type of things.

Matt (00:17:56):
Yeah. When I moved here to Texas, I tried to get an offshore job, and it was like a secret society. I couldn't figure it out. Did it breakthrough? No. And so 85% success rate, so 85 out of 100, how many of them are then moving on to go through these schools and get placement?

Judge Mathew (00:18:18):
I'm sorry, clarify?

Matt (00:18:19):
How many are actually taking advantage of these grants for schooling and getting any kind of certificate and then moving on into a career?

Judge Mathew (00:18:28):
That I don't have the data for at all. No one has ever asked me that, but I will go now looking for it.

Matt (00:18:34):
Okay. Okay. The mental health court, this is adult court?

Judge Mathew (00:18:41):
So yes, this is ... So we do commitments.

Matt (00:18:44):
Oh, wow.

Judge Mathew (00:18:46):
So when the crisis department at the sheriff's office or the police office, the CIT team responds to someone, the initial commitment for the first three days is done by the JP court, the JP Judge.

Matt (00:18:59):
So that's like the 5150 phase of the commitment.

Judge Mathew (00:19:05):
Okay. I don't know the exact ...

Matt (00:19:07):
Okay. So from what I'm used to is if there's a mental health crisis, you can get involuntarily committed and so that's the 5150 and then that's 72 hours. I think it's 48 to 72 hours. And then after that, it's a 5250, which is up to two weeks.

Judge Mathew (00:19:26):
So with us, we can do it for 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, or 90 days.

Matt (00:19:33):
Okay, cool.

Judge Mathew (00:19:34):
And then they can come back to us again if they choose to.

Matt (00:19:38):
Okay. So what does a typical crisis look like? Well, what is the bottom end of the crisis? What is the minimum criteria for that?

Judge Mathew (00:19:47):
I mean, you're asking the wrong person for that. That is the CIT team determines that, so that's out of our hands. Okay. And hopefully, I mean, one good thing is the fact that the police departments and the sheriff's department realizes the necessity and the need for it that they created the crisis intervention teams so that they're not just going in there randomly in physical violence or any of those type of things, shootings. We have seen shooting deaths in the past, and thankfully that's not occurring, at least in the area that I am.

Matt (00:20:24):
So the CIT, they're probably trained in trauma. They're probably trained in response.

Judge Mathew (00:20:32):
Yes.

Matt (00:20:33):
Do they have psychiatrists or psychotherapists that are on staff with them? Probably for suicide prevention stuff.

Judge Mathew (00:20:42):
So I know that they worked with a county provider, which is Texana, who handles that aspect of it. And I believe, and I'm not sure if they still do, but Texana used to ride with them, the side of it. So I'm not sure if that's still the place.

Matt (00:20:58):
So Florida has something called the Baker Act. Do you know what this is?

Judge Mathew (00:21:02):
No, I don't.

Matt (00:21:02):
So it's a bill that was passed that allows for police to involuntarily commit based on criteria. So if somebody is ... And the cool thing about the Baker Act was that it wasn't based on violence, right? It wasn't like you have to meet the criteria based on your affinity to hurt somebody or your likelihood to hurt yourself. It was like, does this person understand that they're in a mental crisis? If not, that is a criteria. There's sub-criteria for that. How severe is it? Are they in danger of downstream having some adverse effect because they don't understand? And so there's just a bunch of different levels and scales that they can use to involuntarily commit somebody. And I think it's like a 72-hour commit with that assessment at 72 hours to see if it needs to be longer. Does Texas have something like that?

Judge Mathew (00:22:03):
I mean, the CIT, I'm sure they do have the assessment. There's no way otherwise for them to proceed without doing the assessment, right?

Matt (00:22:10):
Okay. So they are involuntarily committing people?

Judge Mathew (00:22:14):
Yes.

Matt (00:22:14):
Okay, cool.

Judge Mathew (00:22:15):
I believe so. I mean, not that I ... I mean, if they're having a crisis, they get taken in and then they assess them before anything happens further. But the justice of the peace also obviously is looking at what's been submitted to them.

Matt (00:22:31):
Okay. And then decisions are made after that as far as where they're going to go.

Judge Mathew (00:22:35):
Yep.

Matt (00:22:36):
So the mental health court, is this something where people are like ...

Judge Mathew (00:22:43):
It's not a court. I mean, there is a mental health court. There are judges who have mental health court for adults, but this is-

Matt (00:22:53):
You're doing crisis response.

Judge Mathew (00:22:54):
This is our jurisdiction in regard to handling mental health cases.

Matt (00:22:59):
Okay. Okay. So what exactly does that look like as far as somebody that on average that you would see?

Judge Mathew (00:23:06):
So a lot of them, we appoint ad litems on. So I have, in the 12 months out of the year, I have an ad litem appointed to my mental health case per month. And so they're meeting with the person, they're figuring out, does this person need to stay? They're their attorney, they're there to represent this person. Their advocate. Yeah, their advocate in court. And so they also have the right to pass hearings. If they believe somebody's not having or if somebody does not need to be committed, they will request a hearing where the judge will hear evidence from the facility and whoever ... The county attorney's office is the one that handles this part. So we'll have a hearing where the ad litem is as well as they can call witnesses and you can ... And the person that's been held can also testify on their behalf. And I've had two where I didn't think the person needed to be committed where I released.

Matt (00:24:12):
And how long have you been doing this?

Judge Mathew (00:24:13):
This is my end of my seventh year, about to start my eighth.

Matt (00:24:17):
Okay. How effective is that process, do you think?

Judge Mathew (00:24:21):
I think it's a pretty well run machine.

Matt (00:24:23):
Yeah. It sounds ... I don't know why this isn't done across the country because I know personally, I've interacted with a lot of people who have been committed, they're like stuck in a system. It is really hard to get out of, at least where I come from. It's really hard to get out from underneath that specific situation. If you're committed, that's kind of like something that stays with you.

Judge Mathew (00:24:52):
I wish Texas did have long-term commitments. Even the wait for our mental health beds sometimes in our hospitals that the state run facilities are ... Since I've been on the bench, there's a waiting list sometimes for six months to a year.

Matt (00:25:08):
Wow.

Judge Mathew (00:25:10):
Also, unfortunately, our jails became like the waiting, and that's not a good thing either.

Matt (00:25:17):
Yeah. To have jails like defacto be housing mental health issues.

Judge Mathew (00:25:21):
And the other thing that we faced was that the ones in jail, if they're now medication compliant or they weren't taking the medication, then the jail staff had to deal with it. So every few years we get a ... I served as administrative judge for two years. And at that point, this came up and we couldn't figure out who handles it, whether it be the district attorney's office because they're in jail or it'd be the county attorney's office because it's mental health. So we figured out the process for that as well. So now we can do force medications in the jail.

Matt (00:25:55):
Okay. And that makes sense, right? But is it kind of an ordeal with the individual?

Judge Mathew (00:26:03):
So it's all through hearings up because obviously this is the due process and all those things. So we're having a hearing to determine whether we can force Medicaid. And so all of this is done through proper channels so that we're not in violation of anybody's rights.

Matt (00:26:20):
Yeah. And this is all just around med compliance and severity of their need?

Judge Mathew (00:26:27):
What their mental health issues are, yes, and what medication they need. And the judge gets to determine after hearing testimony, whether it be psychotropic drugs or antidepressant or whatever it is that this person should get or not get.

Matt (00:26:42):
Is that judge who's making this decision well-informed around the specific drugs?

Judge Mathew (00:26:50):
Yes. We do have to go through our annual training in regard to, I mean, our CLEs, but also we're getting testimony from the doctor that's testifying on the matter. And Fort Bend County has been very forward in regard to making sure that the attorneys that handle these cases, as well as those of us who sit on the bench have the information that we need. But now if you were to ask me right now, I may not know everything that I need. I'm going to have to look through my ... Before I go into a hearing, obviously I'm preparing for what I'm about to see.

Matt (00:27:23):
Yeah. So specifically with psychotropics, specifically with SSRIs and stuff like that, there is the misdiagnosis of a specific individual and then the medication that the person gets put on can have crazy adverse effects. And so there's a lot of ... So my doctor, my medical director here, his name is Dr. Shah.

Judge Mathew (00:27:50):
What's his first name?

Matt (00:27:52):
Kamal. He's a neurodoctor, right? So he was neurologically trained officially. That was all of his formal training was in neurology. He did a bunch of alternative medicine training and then movement. He did a bunch of movement training as well, but he's now an addiction medicine specialist. And one of the things that we are looking at specifically is the misdiagnosis of people with SUD because a lot of ... Everybody that goes into treatment or that's coming off of drugs and alcohol, they have anxiety, they have depression, and they're going to present in specific ways that might meet criteria, and then they end up getting misdiagnosed because they're diagnosing in the first 48 hours. And so the working assumption that we have and that he really, really works off of is that a lot of people are misdiagnosed. And then because of the misdiagnosis are put on inappropriate medication and then because it's inappropriate medication, it exacerbates the problem and it really makes it start to look like there is a mental illness there that isn't actually there. It's actually drug induced still.

(00:29:08):
And so when I think, because I've done the medication train too, right? I've done a lot of jail time, I've done a lot of prison time, and a lot of people are going into these lockup situations and getting on medication just to get on medication, to sleep, whatever for anxiety. Jail isn't like a fun place. And so they're getting on these medications. And another thing that I saw was faking symptoms, right? Faking symptoms around knowing how to get this specific medication. And so they'll go in and report all these symptoms that they're not actually having. They're just trying to get Vistaril or some kind of anti-anxiety med. And I know this is kind of different because what you're actually talking about is instances on the streets around mental health where they're then being pulled in But medications in and of themselves are kind of a black hole that are dangerous as well. And so understanding that whole component of it is massively important as well. What is your favorite part of what you do?

Judge Mathew (00:30:21):
There's a lot, I guess.

Matt (00:30:23):
Really?

Judge Mathew (00:30:25):
I do enjoy being a judge. I love being able to make differences in people's lives, to be able to help people. The juvenile court is definitely something that's very close to my heart because of being a mom of three and seeing the kids that I tell them, "You come into my court, you are my child. I'm going to treat you like I would treat my child." And I'm not a perfect mother or anything, but I love doing weddings. I love opening up the courthouse to kids. We have Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, various high schools, middle schools, even elementary schools ever come through. Those are things I never had. I didn't know another attorney even when I was growing up. The only time I came across the state legislature was when I won the science fair. The have these access and to be able to open up those resources to other people, I truly take pride in that and I enjoy it.

Matt (00:31:27):
Okay. Awesome. So why did you end up getting into being a judge? How did that come about?

Judge Mathew (00:31:35):
I think we would have to start further back.

Matt (00:31:37):
That's fine.

Judge Mathew (00:31:40):
I was a very science heavy major.

Matt (00:31:42):
Yeah. You won the science fair, right?

Judge Mathew (00:31:44):
So that was actually a project I did because I went to Russia on a research grant through the ... And then also equipment donated by the Environmental Protection Agency. So we, back in the day, $10,000, I don't know what it is now, probably about 100 or 150,000 because we took equipment to high school in Navgarad, Russia and donated it for the kids there to use and taught them how to use, I think it was like spectrometers. And we donated it. We stayed with them for three weeks in their houses. We trained them.

Matt (00:32:21):
How old were you?

Judge Mathew (00:32:22):
I was 15.

Matt (00:32:24):
Wow.

Judge Mathew (00:32:25):
And so one of the things that I did when I was there was gather the water. So we did some testing there when we were there. So my science fair project was the qualitative and quantitative analysis of the air, water, and soil of the city of Nevgard.

Matt (00:32:43):
At 15?

Judge Mathew (00:32:44):
At 15.

Matt (00:32:44):
Wow.

Judge Mathew (00:32:45):
And so when I came back, that became my science project. And I won national gold medal for earth and space sciences. And so I was a heavy science major, but in life, you get bored with certain things. And when I got to college, I was having too much fun. That whole science track got a little messed up. My dad in between my high school and college also bought a business. And he was a pharmacist from India, but when we came here, he started with a basic minimum ... What is it? Like a starting salary in a factory somewhere. And I remember still seeing him trudging through the snow back home in his heavy winter jacket.

Matt (00:33:29):
Where'd you guys move to?

Judge Mathew (00:33:30):
We moved to Philadelphia. We came to Chicago too cold, moved immediately to Philadelphia. And so my dad's brother had moved from Texas there at the time.

Matt (00:33:40):
Isn't it like comparably just as cold during the winter?

Judge Mathew (00:33:44):
Not as bad as Chicago. No, definitely not. And so we moved there and my mom had saved up significant money as a nurse and we bought this business, but my dad had no clue how to be a businessman. He was not business oriented. He had no business getting into this. Anyway, his partner, another Indian American man had gone to law school here, although he wasn't a licensed attorney, but people always used to go to him for every legal thing under the sun. And just started taking advantage of my dad, would take money out of the account and he wasn't doing any work or any help whatsoever. My dad was running the business, but he was just very harassing my dad. And I saw my parents' helplessness. And so it was at the time when I was tired of science and kind of seeing what my parents were going through, I was like, in my head, I was like, oh.

(00:34:40):
I was like, "If you know the law, no one can take advantage of you. " That kind of dawned in my head. And growing up also, my dad had always said, "You're going to be the governor of Pennsylvania," which I thought was crazy to tell me. But law school dawned in my head and I was like, "Oh, at some point if I want to get into politics, I can. " All of those things kind of came together last minute applied to law school, very last minute applied to law school. And I think I thanked my counselor at the time, Jan Harris, for even prompting me and pushing me to get it done and went to law school and became an attorney. And then at some point I was like, "I don't like how the system is.

(00:35:22):
And I truly believe in the words Mahatma Gandhi said, "Be the change that you want to see in this world." And I decided I'm going to run. I was actually going to run in 2013 for 2014 against a lower position, a justice of the peace court, but people were telling me how much it cost running a campaign. At that time, she said, "If you wanted to run for this position, you're going to need about $85,000. You're going to have to fundraise that much." And I didn't know anything. I chickened out and I regretted chickening out because that judge who was on the bench very shortly before his election was diagnosed with cancer and died a few months later. So if I was running all that time, I probably would have had a chance. And so I regretted that decision, but then when 2016 came around and what was happening in our country, I decided I can't sit on the sidelines anymore.

Matt (00:36:21):
What was happening in the country?

Judge Mathew (00:36:23):
Well, we had a new president, and so I was concerned about the rhetoric amount about immigrants and about someone taking away someone's citizenship and all those things that were in the air. I thought this was the time I'm going to do it. And I ran for a judge in 2018.

Matt (00:36:43):
And so you did civil prosecution?

Judge Mathew (00:36:48):
Civil Litigation.

Matt (00:36:49):
Okay. What does that look like?

Judge Mathew (00:36:52):
I worked for one of the biggest banks and getting a lot of million dollar accounts and things we had to collect on them. And so I ... One of the things working at that job that I recognize is that our country has a lot of issues that we really do need to handle and look at. One of them being healthcare. But as a judge, I can't talk about these things, but one-

Matt (00:37:20):
Why?

Judge Mathew (00:37:21):
Because we are not really allowed to talk about social issues or anything that's happening.

Matt (00:37:26):
Yeah. So you can't publicly hold an opinion?

Judge Mathew (00:37:30):
No, I can't.

Matt (00:37:31):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (00:37:31):
But I'll say this. When I was in that position, I was seeing people that had a catastrophic event in their life, such as cancer or heart attack or stroke, and these are people who owns companies. And we were going after people that were extremely successful, but your debt is your personal debt as well. Even if you have an LLC, sometimes you're signing off on personal liability and they wipe them out. And are you going to pay for your medical cost? What I was seeing was, I mean, I had people look at me and say, "I'm not. Am I going to pay for my house note or am I going to pay for my credit card or my debt?" They had to make those choices and their credit was wiped out through these catastrophic events that they faced. A lot of it was medical.

Matt (00:38:29):
Yeah. I think that is a really, really common thing too. Most people ... Have you heard this where the average American doesn't have $500 in savings?

Judge Mathew (00:38:39):
I'm not surprised.

Matt (00:38:40):
Yeah. I mean, it's just, can you imagine that person who struggles to make their regular monthly payments, right?

Judge Mathew (00:38:48):
I think all of us are some way or another. For example, I always have this fear. Having worked in that industry, I try to pay off my credit card bill each month. I don't like to have balances. I get really nervous when I have a high bill of we traveled somewhere or did something or bought a huge purchase. I get anxiety with surrounding those type of things, having dealt with this, I think.

Matt (00:39:11):
Yeah. Because of my past, I still have no credit. I don't even see the benefit of it at this point. It's like because of how big of a burden that is, right? I know people that have, they've lost all their hair worrying about credit debt and it's a totally unfair system around ... I'll say it, right? Totally unfair system. You're looking at interest rates and stuff like that and it's like, what? I have to borrow that much money to buy a pair of shoes. It's like, why would I ever do that?

Judge Mathew (00:39:47):
I see TikTokers and various Instagramers talk about, oh, borrow against the house that you have that whatever. Yeah,

Matt (00:39:54):
Your equity in the house.

Judge Mathew (00:39:55):
Yes. And I'm like, never. Yeah. It's probably a great person for somebody who's a risk taker in that, but having seen what I seen, I'm not ever doing that.

Matt (00:40:05):
Yeah. So what was running for ... Because you're actually elected, right?

Judge Mathew (00:40:11):
We're elected every four years. So every four years I have to run for this position.

Matt (00:40:15):
Okay. Is that all judges?

Judge Mathew (00:40:17):
So in Texas, the Justice of the Peace, the county and the district level runs every four years. The appeals court and the Supreme Court runs every six years.

Matt (00:40:28):
So they are still elected though?

Judge Mathew (00:40:30):
Yes.

Matt (00:40:30):
So there is no court appointed court appointed?

Judge Mathew (00:40:34):
Municipal level. Municipal level. And also if a seat becomes open or if a seat is created, initially it's appointed by the governor. Depending on ... If it's a state court, it's appointed by the governor. If it's on the county level, the commissioners and the county judge appoints. And on the municipal level, those are appointed. Those are the city, like City of Sugarlands, Houston. City of Houston all have judges. Those are appointed by the council and the mayor.

Matt (00:40:59):
So your average criminal court judge, he was elected here. Yes. That is so crazy. So what was that like running for office because you're running for-

Judge Mathew (00:41:10):
It was probably the craziest thing I did because I had a six month old when I decided to do this.

Matt (00:41:17):
Oh, wow.

Judge Mathew (00:41:17):
I had a year and a half year old, and then I had a 12 year old. And so yes, a few days ago, Saturday night I went to a party. No, no. Monday night I went to a party and the person, one of my friends that I knew or one of the colleagues that I knew from about 10 years ago told me, "You had young kids. I thought you were crazy running and doing this, but you made it work." And I had people confront me in regard to parenting. I had a lady at a party who came up to me and said, "Who's watching your kids?" And I said, "My parents." She's like, "Well, I always had my mother watching me when I was growing up. We didn't have your grand..." I said, "As long as they know they're loved and cared for, I think they'll be okay." And also I was doing it for them. I mean, at the end of the day, there's not another ... I mean, I didn't want to be seen as a perpetual immigrant. This is my country. I love the United States of America. I have a vested interest in the future of this nation. And this may not be where I'm born, but this is definitely where I intend to die.

Matt (00:42:31):
How old were you when you came over?

Judge Mathew (00:42:32):
I was 10.

Matt (00:42:33):
Okay. So English, not your first language?

Judge Mathew (00:42:37):
No, It's not.

Matt (00:42:38):
Did you learn English over there though?

Judge Mathew (00:42:39):
I did, But we never didn't speak it. Schooling was done in English.

Matt (00:42:44):
Okay. It's crazy. So Dr. Shah also, he was not an immigrant. His parents were. Wait, no, no. So he was born here and then he went back over there when he was like two and lived there for a while. But it was very interesting to me to hear about the education system over there and how you get the ... Did you ever take that test that kind of tells you what you were going to do? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Judge Mathew (00:43:17):
Unfortunately, no. Maybe it's part of ... India is such a huge country and people don't realize the regional differences. Everything's so different from one area to the next. Even food, culture, language, everything. It's like a melting part of everybody that's not the same and then the same existing together.

Matt (00:43:35):
Yeah. I mean, it is the most populous country in the world, right?

Judge Mathew (00:43:39):
Yes.

Matt (00:43:40):
And it's like billions.

Judge Mathew (00:43:41):
Yes.

Matt (00:43:42):
Okay. So what part of India are you from?

Judge Mathew (00:43:44):
I'm from a state called Karala, which is the southernmost state. And it has, I think, a 98 or 99% literacy rate. I think it was even 100% at some point.

Matt (00:43:56):
Wow.

Judge Mathew (00:43:57):
And it's probably the most educated, the most ... I mean, I take pride in where I'm from. And then also, I think what differentiates me is being a Christian. And then people ... I feel like in this country, Christianity gets hijacked.

Matt (00:44:15):
Oh, no, no, no. You're 100% right.

Judge Mathew (00:44:18):
And for me, and I'm like, where do y'all come from? Because if anything, the disciple of Christ, St. Thomas, one of the 12 disciples, was shipwrecked off the coast of India.

Matt (00:44:31):
Really?

Judge Mathew (00:44:32):
So my ancestors were Christian way before all of Europe. And if anything, Christ was Middle Eastern. And then also Indians look at us like, oh, rice bag converts. We get it from all ends. So I didn't used to ever wear a cross. I used to have a hard time wearing a cross because I don't particularly like where it's going, but I take pride in the fact that I'm an Indian Christian because my people, Indians generally are very ... They don't believe in very many things. They doubt everything. They kind of can be antagonistic, I would say. The fact that my ancestors became Christian, the four families that converted at the time to Christianity and remained Christian all through those years in a predominantly Hindu country, then I should take pride in that. I was in church on Sunday and it was our traditional service in my mother tongue, my first language. And I got a little teary-eyed. My ancestors worshiped in the same liturgy that I'm standing in that church repeating out loud.

(00:45:52):
And it wasn't lost on me that my kids will not know this. The language is a very hard language. I'm like, I don't know if I can ever teach them. I don't know if I'll ever be able to teach them to read and write this. I mean, there's a part of me that hopes and wants that, but it was like, so this is very close to my heart that I, within the last two years, have decided I'm going to wear this because it is significant for me and who I am and where I came from.

Matt (00:46:18):
So what is the original story around ... There's, you said four families converted and you are a descendant in one of those-

Judge Mathew (00:46:25):
We claim, Yes, our heritage.

Matt (00:46:27):
What year was this?

Judge Mathew (00:46:28):
Year 52.

Matt (00:46:29):
Oh my gosh. Okay. Do you know the story?

Judge Mathew (00:46:34):
I mean, so he was shipwrecked, so I think he was on his way to Far East, China or somewhere along those lines is what ... And then so there was a storm and he was ... So Brahmans at the time, and I don't like to get into caste or any of those things, but Brahmans, the teachers of the religion where we're from are the only ones that are able to change religions. So they became Christians is all I know. And then the church was created later on. The specific church I belong to or the denomination that I belong to is in the 1800s. And we are more orthodox, Syrik Orthodox. And the bishop of our church, the first bishop, because only a bishop can anoint or create another bishop, so was from Antioch in Syria who came down and the first bishop of my church was created through.

(00:47:30):
So there's a lot of history that I am not well versed on, but St. Thomas was killed in Chennai, another state Tamulnadu, which is the next state over. And there's a mount there called St. Thomas Mount, where he was speared and killed by the people in the area. I believe everyone should be free to practice what they want because I think people distort religion so much. And the central theme of the Bible is about love. Love your neighbor, love ... And for me, really, that should be the central theme of any human being. At the end of the day, we all bleed the same blood. We all ... I mean, what degree of separation is there between me and you? And to be treating someone with kindness and respect, that should go across any skin color, that should go across any religion, that should go across any bond.

(00:48:25):
I really believe in being kind and loving and not being judgmental or getting to this religious fanatic of who or what. I think there's such a thing as religiosity, which really I dislike and legalistic methods of dealing with things, meaning church can be very legalistic and Jesus was never legalistic.

Matt (00:48:53):
Yeah. It's funny that you have this opinion because you're a judge. Right? So it's like ...

Judge Mathew (00:49:01):
I'm very strong in my faith, and that's one of the things that do prompt me forward when I pray, Lord, give me the discernment to handle the cases that come in front of me, help me be a better judge, help me ... I can be tough. I mean, I've sometimes ... I was like, oh, I would look back on things that I've handled. And I think that makes me a better person where I'm able to sit back and say, did I handle that appropriately? Was that the right thing to do in this matter?

Matt (00:49:32):
Yeah. That is a misconception around ... It's actually a weapon that's used against Christianity a lot is the judging part, but it's like, dude, the discernment of what's right and wrong or what's correct or incorrect or proper, improper. And I think a lot of people weaponize that against Christians pretty often. It was like, "Oh, you shouldn't judge or you shouldn't do this or you shouldn't do that. " It's like, no. Where does it say not to use discernment?

Judge Mathew (00:50:01):
I'm the most imperfect of human beings who want to be, make myself better as I can be as much as I can be.

Matt (00:50:07):
Do you think that your faith informs your decisions directly?

Judge Mathew (00:50:12):
No, I uphold the law. At the end of the day, that's my job. And there's a portion in the Bible give Caesar what's due Caesar. So for me, it's the same thing in the sense of I am in a position to uphold the law of this land, and that's what I have to do.

Matt (00:50:28):
So when you were making the decision to run, what was some of the obstacles that you had?

Judge Mathew (00:50:34):
I had no support from my husband.

Matt (00:50:36):
Really?

Judge Mathew (00:50:37):
None whatsoever. And I was not throwing him under the bus, but he's a great guy. But initially he's like, "What are you doing?" And he's the kind of person who wants me with him all the time. And when I was praying for a husband I asked for, I really did pray, God, I want somebody who wants me with him all the time. That's exactly what I got. And so I was never home and people told me, "If your spouse is not in this, do not do this. If you do not have the backing of your spouse, do not do it. " And I was like, "Uh-huh. Okay, I got it. " And I just felt like this had to be done And I didn't care hell or high water I was going to do it.

Matt (00:51:28):
Did it turn out what you thought it would be or was it different than what you assumed it was going to be?

Judge Mathew (00:51:35):
There were some things that were hugely different and there was things that I thought was going to be the same. And there's so much work that goes into the background.

Matt (00:51:45):
Of the campaign or of just being a judge?

Judge Mathew (00:51:48):
Of being a judge.

Matt (00:51:49):
Yeah. Yeah, I imagine so.

Judge Mathew (00:51:50):
And then being that you're also politically elected, there's so much work. And there are days that I'm going from event to event to event where I have to sometimes change outfits, change shoes, whatever. There's a myriad of things in my car that I can switch into because if you go, like for example, being Indian, I'm always invited to Indian events. And so I cannot just walk in there with my jeans and t-shirt. That's not going to work. For going to a dinner, I would have to be formal and or going to a gala, I would have to be formal. And then coming from elsewhere, so being able to change on a short notice and being somewhere, I was at a meet and greet for another judge at somebody's house and I was like, "Can I use your bathroom?" Because I had a gala to go to next and I had to change it if I happened. So campaigning is tough. I didn't rest. I think my first time around, my whole thing was, what if it's that one vote that was going to get me over?

(00:52:54):
And I remember, and I tell the story all the time, because it's so vivid in my head, I was in H-E-B, my local HEB, some lady was just holding up a bag of grapes and checking it out. I went up to her. I was like, "Hi, I'm Julie Matthew. I'm running for judge. Will you vote for me? " And I saw my daughter, my 12-year-old at the time just dash. I mean, when I say dash, I'm where the fruit and section is and my look is like meat and dairy is next. She was like a dairy already. She was out of there.

Matt (00:53:28):
Booked it.

Judge Mathew (00:53:29):
Yep. She was not having any of it. It was embarrassing for her.

Matt (00:53:33):
Really?

Judge Mathew (00:53:33):
Yes. And so even now, I didn't have a TikTok account till recently. My interns during the summer kind of had me start one. And I thought it was a good idea too because the younger generation would never know some of these things. And I posted something, it was like somebody flying the AI version that you're standing somewhere and you fly and I post it. It's like, "Mom, take it down." Or I ordered buttons for my campaign and it said, "Judge Julie Matthew." And I put it on her bags that were hanging on the staircase and I posted that video. She's like, "Mom, no." So I have to be mindful of how much I embarrass her, but yeah, there's a lot of, you're constantly campaigning. I feel like there's not a rest period.

Matt (00:54:24):
Yeah. I hear campaigning is brutal. When is your next run?

Judge Mathew (00:54:29):
So in February, March, I have a primary. February 17th, this early voting for next year. March, third or fourth is election day itself is that Tuesday.

Matt (00:54:39):
Oh wait. Are you heading towards campaign mode right now or are you already in campaign?

Judge Mathew (00:54:43):
I'm in campaign mode.

Matt (00:54:44):
Okay. All right.

Judge Mathew (00:54:45):
And then November is general elections. Early voting will start in October of 2026.

Matt (00:54:51):
Okay. And what were your margins?

Judge Mathew (00:54:55):
The first time I ran, I had like an 8% margin. And the second time I ran, I think my margin fell huge. We had straight ticket voting in 2018, but they took that away. And then 22 when I ran, I only had a 1% maybe or 2% margin. It wasn't a huge margin.

Matt (00:55:13):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (00:55:15):
And I'm at the bottom of the ballot. County court law, we fall at bottom.

Matt (00:55:20):
Yeah. So most people are voting the top half of the ticket and then they're like- And then

Judge Mathew (00:55:24):
This is also the gubernatorial cycle. People aren't voting on the presidential cycle, more people vote than the gubernatorial.

Matt (00:55:31):
Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. So are you campaigning with other people as well?

Judge Mathew (00:55:40):
So we cannot as judges necessarily campaign-

Matt (00:55:44):
Oh, because then you can't hit your wagon.

Judge Mathew (00:55:47):
We can't endorse people. Even with pictures with other judges, I'm careful to make sure that I put other people in the picture so it's not me and just another candidate sometimes. But it gets harder because a lot of the people that you come across, I've known them for eight years. They're my friends. They're not just candidates. They're like, "I've been friends with these folks forever and a day." Or we're standing in front of somebody's sign and I have to be mindful, "No, I cannot stand in front of your sign. Let's move over here and take a picture." Some of the things you can't catch because there's just so much happening around you all the time. But as much as I can, I do.

Matt (00:56:26):
So what are you running on?

Judge Mathew (00:56:30):
So we have to run on party basis, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, you have to run on your party. And then I'm running on my experience. I've been a judge for seven years now with all these different jurisdictions, which I really do like and have done my part in being active in the community and taking care of business.

Matt (00:56:47):
Yeah. Do you have soapbox issues?

Judge Mathew (00:56:53):
I mean, definitely what I ... We can't necessarily address anything specific. When you're running for a judge, I think you have more levee, but when you're actually a sitting judge, your window is so much smaller.

Matt (00:57:10):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (00:57:11):
But I do talk about the creation of my court, the programs I've done, things like that, and what I have brought to the table.

Matt (00:57:21):
And you actually had a hand in creating these courts, right? I

Judge Mathew (00:57:24):
Created it.

Matt (00:57:26):
What did that look like? Because here's another thing-

Judge Mathew (00:57:29):
Somebody ... Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. Ask your question.

Matt (00:57:33):
Austin kind of runs everything, right? It's like an Iron Fist. They have to do all the approvals.

Judge Mathew (00:57:37):
There's the Office of Court Administration who you have to register with and you have to give them the information that they need. And I can't recall it now. It's too long ago what all I had to go through. And then also, so I had to get the commissioner's approval, then file that with the office of court administration to create this court. And then our juvenile probation office had done a lot of work. The grant and all that was already in place. So in coming in and figuring out how to do this was also like, let's see how this works and let's see how we're going to go forward. And then kind of just putting it all together as we went along.

Matt (00:58:15):
Okay. So was there implementing initial systems and then kind of like tightening everything up as you run into friction points? Yes. And so what was the whole idea behind it? Did people approach you and they were like, "Hey, we need to implement something around this? "

Judge Mathew (00:58:31):
So in Fort Bend County, all of the courts have a specialty court. It's just the judges have created it along the way. So my court had something called the Core Girls, which was girls who are being trafficked and helping them get through the system.

Matt (00:58:45):
Is that a big issue over there?

Judge Mathew (00:58:47):
Across I think the United States.

Matt (00:58:49):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (00:58:52):
But I ran with another other individual who became a judge as well. And so she was a part of that program from the beginning, from the get go when my predecessor created the court. And so I felt it was right for her to have it. So I transferred the court to her and I thought she was going to give me hers, but then she transferred her to court to another judge. So I ended up not having a specialty court. I didn't have to do anything. I could have just been perfectly contend not doing anything, but I really wanted something to call my own to be able to work at it, to have an impact on a bigger scale. So I was looking at domestic violence. I was looking at possibly pets like animal abuse and just nothing was per se clicking, but this just clicked and fell into place.

Matt (00:59:44):
And how did you decide on it?

Judge Mathew (00:59:47):
Our juvenile probation department had came to me and said, "We have this program. We can use an accountability partner. Well, you think about it. " And I said, "Absolutely." And I was like, "This is it. " And when you have that That feeling, you're like, this is something, and I didn't have to even think too much about it. And naming it, I wanted acronyms you can easily remember. So I named it Jim's Court, which is my husband's name.

Matt (01:00:13):
And what does the acronym stand for?

Judge Mathew (01:00:15):
Juvenile Intervention and Mental Health Court.

Matt (01:00:17):
Oh, wow.

Judge Mathew (01:00:19):
I can't forget it.

Matt (01:00:20):
Really fitting. So as far as your future, how long do you ... First of all, how old are you?

Judge Mathew (01:00:31):
I'm 49. Oh my gosh. I never told anybody this. Even though I'm Wikipedia, it says 48 or 47.

Matt (01:00:38):
So you've been doing this since you were 42?

Judge Mathew (01:00:40):
Yes.

Matt (01:00:41):
Okay. That's really young.

Judge Mathew (01:00:43):
No, there's judges who are much, much younger at this point.

Matt (01:00:46):
Yeah. I'm actually talking to a judge out of Conroe. He was 31 when he was elected. You don't have to be a lawyer.

Judge Mathew (01:00:55):
So those are justice of the peace judges.

Matt (01:00:56):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (01:00:57):
So on the county level, yes, you do.

Matt (01:00:59):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (01:01:00):
So those are the only judges that you don't have to be attorneys, which I've never liked practicing in front of JP courts who are not attorneys.

Matt (01:01:09):
Yeah. I mean, the way that he explained it to me, I was like, okay. Some

Judge Mathew (01:01:15):
Of the smaller counties do not have attorneys who can be judges.

Matt (01:01:18):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:01:19):
And their county judge is not an attorney, also handles legal matters. The county judge in Fort Bend County, as well as Harris County is just an administrative position. Whereas in other counties, they actually have legal vested authority.

Matt (01:01:31):
Right. So how long do you see yourself doing this for? And do you have aspirations to go higher?

Judge Mathew (01:01:39):
So the moment that I announce that if I ever say anything that I'm going to do anything else, I have to resign my position or I lose my position.

Matt (01:01:45):
Okay. All right. Fair enough.

Judge Mathew (01:01:46):
So I'll say this. I love being a judge and I'm going to definitely run for this term. And I hope to get elected for this term and serve my community. In the future, whatever God has a plan or a place for me, and if it falls into place, I may. But I'm always never want to be in life where I regret a decision I made. I don't want to look back and say, oh, I should have done it. Because at the end of the day, it's really courage and boldness that gets you to the next level.

Matt (01:02:16):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:02:17):
And why not? But I'm not at that. Why not just yet?

Matt (01:02:21):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:02:22):
I still have a kid who's in third grade.

Matt (01:02:25):
Oh my gosh. Okay. Your campaigns, do they still cost the same amount every day?

Judge Mathew (01:02:34):
I probably need to raise about 150 to 200,000 to run this.

Matt (01:02:40):
Okay. And what is your ... You're a Democrat?

Judge Mathew (01:02:45):
Yes.

Matt (01:02:46):
Okay. Is it hard to raise that money?

Judge Mathew (01:02:53):
Okay. So on the higher courts, they have an easier time, but on the lower courts, it's a little bit harder. Yes,

Matt (01:02:57):
It is. Why is that? The

Judge Mathew (01:02:58):
Higher courts, the firms have a lot, like for example, the PI forms. PI firms can donate. I forgot if it's 15,000 or 25,000 they can donate to a judge.

Matt (01:03:07):
Okay. So it's just because of the caps?

Judge Mathew (01:03:10):
What kind of cases come into our courts? And also considering people are going through their own economic issues right now. So donating to be a campaign may not be their priority. But having good judges, good courts, the good judicial system is important. So I hope people value that and will make donations. But I hate asking for money. It's something I've gotten better at, but it's not something that I'm great at.

Matt (01:03:39):
Okay. I've never seen under the hood of a campaign. What does the money actually go to?

Judge Mathew (01:03:44):
So for example, I just wrote a check for $16,750. And that money is going towards sending out Christmas cards to the Triple D voters, voters who have voted three times in the Democratic primary.

Matt (01:04:01):
Okay. So it's like strategy stuff.

Judge Mathew (01:04:03):
Yeah. So I just ordered my signs and per sign is such and such. And then, so that's going to be a good another five, $6,000. Mailers are usually where the money goes. It's taken anywhere between 16 to 25,000 sometimes to send a mailer out. And I am not a huge fan of people knocking on doors, so I'm trying to figure out another strategy as to how to reach the most voters.

Matt (01:04:33):
So you know how there's like minimum ... They'll be like, well, you need to have ... They told you 85,000, right? Is that just kind of like preset or is that just based on historically how much it's cost?

Judge Mathew (01:04:44):
Historically.

Matt (01:04:45):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (01:04:45):
So my previous campaign was about 150,000 that I raised and spent in 22.

Matt (01:04:51):
And so is there like a max that you can spend? Do they say that you can't spend a million dollars or whatever?

Judge Mathew (01:04:56):
No.

Matt (01:04:57):
So if you can raise it, you can spend it?

Judge Mathew (01:04:59):
Historically, it's people with money that's been in politics and there's a reason for it.

Matt (01:05:04):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I don't think that what you're talking about is traditional politics because you're a judge, right? Which I think is really weird anyway.

Judge Mathew (01:05:17):
So for us, individually, someone can donate up to $2,500. Law firms can donate up to 15,000, I believe. So I should be calling my family up very shortly. All of my family members.

Matt (01:05:32):
They're lawyers?

Judge Mathew (01:05:33):
No. Family members can donate up to 2,500.

Matt (01:05:36):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (01:05:36):
I've been very bad calling people. I've been very bad calling people. It's kind of hard to find the time in between doing my job, being a mom, doing the things I need to be socially, and then also sitting down to make the calls. Some people are more disciplined.

Matt (01:05:55):
Yeah. Are you allowed to have people that raise money for you?

Judge Mathew (01:05:59):
Oh yeah.

Matt (01:05:59):
Okay. That makes it easier.

Judge Mathew (01:06:02):
But you have to hire somebody, right? A staff member or something like that. And those also cost money. So Congress people, people who are running for Congress or some of the higher positions are able to afford those type of ... But judges are more or less not on the highly ... Our campaigns are a little bit less minimal.

Matt (01:06:21):
Yeah. And a Congress campaign, like a campaign for that is- Those,

Judge Mathew (01:06:27):
They have like per month they have goals that they have to meet.

Matt (01:06:30):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:06:31):
And also, I think the DNC probably tells them you have to raise this much.

Matt (01:06:35):
Yeah. Well, also it's a much more widespread campaign versus like you're in Fort Bend.

Judge Mathew (01:06:40):
Yes. Mine is a million people, so I have to figure out how I'm going to reach as many voters as I can who can vote for me.

Matt (01:06:47):
That's still a lot of people. What is the split in the county as far as right now?

Judge Mathew (01:06:53):
Only about 400,000 people vote.

Matt (01:06:55):
Oh, that makes sense too. Yeah. So of that board-

Judge Mathew (01:06:59):
We have registered voters, I think 800,000 possibly. Or I don't know. I haven't looked at the data in a while because I'm not fully in campaign mode, although I am in campaign mode. I'm still getting my website together. My website needs to be changed. I'm still getting all the things I need to put together.

Matt (01:07:17):
So do you just put that stuff on hold every campaign cycle where do you just leave your website up?

Judge Mathew (01:07:22):
Yes.

Matt (01:07:24):
And then you just kind of revamp it a little bit every time?

Judge Mathew (01:07:27):
Yep. This time I'm redoing it completely. It's the first time I'm redoing it completely.

Matt (01:07:33):
Do you think that ... Has there been AI tools?

Judge Mathew (01:07:37):
Yes.

Matt (01:07:37):
Oh, really?

Judge Mathew (01:07:38):
So my person who's designing my website will be using an AI kind of tool to kind of figure it out.

Matt (01:07:44):
Have you found any AI tools that have made reaching historically unreachable people?

Judge Mathew (01:07:52):
I have not, but that's a good idea.

Matt (01:07:54):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean- I mean,

Judge Mathew (01:07:56):
I've got into TikTok for that very reason. Maybe just if they see a judge on a TikTok, maybe they'll think, oh, this has an impact. Maybe they'll vote. I don't know. Just reaching another generation that doesn't necessarily ... I mean, there's a lot of senators and Congress people and other judges on TikTok with a huge following. So I haven't broken through the 600s yet.

Matt (01:08:24):
Social media is ... There's strategy involved, right? So I didn't use social media up until a couple months ago. And before that, my last social media that I actually used was MySpace.

Judge Mathew (01:08:39):
I remember MySpace.

Matt (01:08:40):
Right. And I've got a podcast and we've got some really good engagement and stuff, but it's like getting-

Judge Mathew (01:08:47):
People have told me, use Judge Julie. Why don't you get online as Judge Julie?

Matt (01:08:52):
Yeah. And

Judge Mathew (01:08:52):
Somebody had even told me, let's do a Judge Julie podcast, but I've never had the opportunity to figure it out, I guess.

Matt (01:09:01):
Yeah. I mean, I think podcasting is like going to ... It's already moving in that direction, but I think it's going to be a major factor in information dissemination in the future. It's going to be, I think, the way that everything happens. But yeah, you're going to start Judge Julie. What are you going by right now?

Judge Mathew (01:09:24):
So I'll tell you a little story before I get to this. So growing up, Judge Judy just came on the scene. I think I was in high school when she came out with her first show or Judge Judy. And so my friends who just to annoy me used to call me Judge Judy, Judge Juli all the time. It used to drive me crazy. And at that time I had no intention of ever being a judge or-

Matt (01:09:48):
Yeah, you're going to be scientist.

Judge Mathew (01:09:49):
Or go to law school. Yeah. So come now, this campaign, my campaign, one of our, somebody that I've hired to kind of manage my campaign has said, Hey, Judge Julie, why don't we capitalize on it? So I kind of changed my signs a little bit that it's Judge Juli and Mathews in a different color. I still don't like when people go by their first names. It kind of bothers me that type A personality in me kind of just get irked by it. So I still had to say, no, we're not taking away Mathew and just using Judge Juli. We're still keeping Mathew same size thing, but we'll make it a different color.

Matt (01:10:27):
Yeah. I think people have kind of lost the importance of names and titles. I've never heard that. Is that a train?

Judge Mathew (01:10:39):
I sounded like it.

Matt (01:10:42):
Dr. Shah is like a really good friend of mine. I never use his first name. I always call him Dr. Shah, right?

Judge Mathew (01:10:47):
I hate walking into doctor's offices and getting called Juli. I really do. Call me Mrs. Mathew. I never gave you permission. We're not the same age. You were like 30 years younger than me. Get it together.

Matt (01:11:00):
Yeah. Doctors are funny because they have this massive ego.

Judge Mathew (01:11:04):
I don't have a problem with doctors, but I have a problem with the staff just calling me.

Matt (01:11:09):
Juli.

Judge Mathew (01:11:10):
Yes.

Matt (01:11:11):
Yeah. I think in the medical profession, they try to knock down barriers as much as possible to build trust because I mean, we do it here. You're trying to build a clinical alliance with the individual. And so you try to make them feel as at home as possible. And then you've got people like judges and stuff where they're very used to being formally spoken to and with respect. I always text you, Your Honor. Right? But yeah, it's a-

Judge Mathew (01:11:44):
Yesterday there was an attorney in my court and when attorneys or anybody speak in court, they're supposed to get up. And she's a brand spanking new attorney. You can tell. I told her, "Please stand up when you address the court." And they were late. So they were supposed to show up at 11 o'clock for a jury trial and come 12:30, still not there. And she standing in for somebody else and didn't apologize, didn't say anything. For me, I'm like, etiquette is everything.

Matt (01:12:14):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:12:15):
It really put your best foot forward. I mean, there's times you can't. I mean, I give people grace as well.

Matt (01:12:23):
Yeah. What side of the case were they on?

Judge Mathew (01:12:28):
She was a defense.

Matt (01:12:29):
Okay.

Judge Mathew (01:12:30):
It was an eviction case.

Matt (01:12:31):
Oh, okay.

Judge Mathew (01:12:32):
It kind of felt bad afterwards for her, poor little girl, but she's never going to forget this.

Matt (01:12:38):
Yeah. Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:12:39):
I had some very mean judges when I was practicing. Oh my gosh, there was a judge in Harris County. She made my life a miserable hell. And my firm had assigned me to her court, so I had to deal with her Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is when her docket was in Harris County on the fifth floor. She was county court three. And she came from just a family of names in Harris County, and I think she had this certain air about her, and she just made it her mission to make attorneys feel horrible.

Matt (01:13:09):
Was she an attorney?

Judge Mathew (01:13:10):
Yes, yes. I mean, our county courts have to be attorneys.

Matt (01:13:13):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Judges, my dad's an attorney. He did civil prosecution for a long time and then got into a whole bunch of different stuff. But I used to go to court with him all the time and he handled all their trials. And so in California, he had clients all the way up to Northern California. And I would go to court with him. And one time we were at a trial and it was like me and my buddy went with him and we were going to go shooting. It was going to be like a whole thing. So we went up there with them and we fell asleep in the courtroom and the judge woke us up and kicked us out of his court. He was like, "Get out of here. You can't be sleeping in here."

Judge Mathew (01:14:02):
I don't like people. I feel like it's almost disrespecting the court.

Matt (01:14:06):
To sleep?

Judge Mathew (01:14:07):
No, just walking in however you want to wear and whatever you want to wear. And I've permitted Zoom hearings and things because somebody's out of state or it's a student in college and I've permitted Zoom hearings on my criminal matters. And then I took it away because there would be people who are lying in bed, getting online with just whatever they want to wear and however they want to be. And I don't need to see anybody's anything. Cover yourself up. You're coming to court. This is still an official hearing.

Matt (01:14:41):
Yeah. I think that respect for the judicial process has definitely waned over the years. I also think that there were decisions that were made that kind of started that ball rolling around removing certain things out of courts and-

Judge Mathew (01:14:57):
I also have, I think, with fellow colleagues who there are colleagues who do not wear a robe on the bench. They're colleagues who ... Yeah. For me, it's like

Matt (01:15:08):
Wait, that's allowed?

Judge Mathew (01:15:11):
It's not, I would say ... We recently had a conference where our regional judge said, "Do not do that. " But there are colleagues who, one of my attorney friends in Harris County sent me a picture of a judge who was on the bench wearing a hood and I was like a sweatshirt, hooded sweatshirt. And I was just had a hard time with things like that. I think that's just ... I mean, there has to be some ... You went through law school, you were a practicing attorney, you ran a race, became a judge. There's a certain sense of ... I mean, I don't know how to phrase it exactly at this point,

Matt (01:15:49):
Decorum?

Judge Mathew (01:15:49):
Decorum, yes, that you should upkeep.

Matt (01:15:54):
Yeah, I think that that kind of sets a precedent for the people that walk in.

Judge Mathew (01:15:59):
My mom always says, or she used to tell me, "Dress your best, your absolute very best all the time."

Matt (01:16:05):
Yeah. I think that, was it a male or a female that was wearing the hoodie?

Judge Mathew (01:16:08):
It was a male.

Matt (01:16:09):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that-

Judge Mathew (01:16:13):
I think it's just almost injustice to the bench.

Matt (01:16:16):
No, I would agree that it's a respect factor. But again, I think that people have lost a lot of respect for the bench. I know personally that I would walk into ... So I typically, when I walk into court, I have handcuffs on and every single person that's about to go see that judge, utmost respect. Yes, Your Honor. No, Your Honor. I understand. Yes. And it's like we are saying as little as possible because that's who holds all of the power right there. And it's like, oh yeah, you say one misstep and there goes that deal or there goes that or bad opinion. And it's like, okay, so we have the utmost respect, right? But then you look at people that are out in the back and they're on their phone, they're not paying attention or whatever. I fell asleep and it was like I had a skateboard under my feet.

(01:17:12):
We both fell asleep. I was probably snoring, but I was also 15. But yeah, I think that for the most part, I think a lot of it has to do with the crazy politics that are going on too, where a lot of people see this stuff and not understand the importance of it, but I think a lot of people have lost.

Judge Mathew (01:17:32):
I mean, I take my oath very seriously. I'm upholding the US Constitution. I mean, that to me is everything in the state of Texas.

Matt (01:17:41):
Yeah. I mean, did you practice? You practice law here only?

Judge Mathew (01:17:46):
In Texas. Well, I worked for a firm initially when I moved to Texas that had cases in Pennsylvania. I was also licensed there.

Matt (01:17:54):
So what bar did you take?

Judge Mathew (01:17:56):
I took the Pennsylvania bar and the Texas bar.

Matt (01:17:58):
Okay. Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:17:58):
Took both.

Matt (01:18:00):
Which one was harder?

Judge Mathew (01:18:02):
Pennsylvania.

Matt (01:18:03):
Really?

Judge Mathew (01:18:03):
But I had a hard time with Texas because a lot of the subject matters I didn't study. Like oil and gas, they told me not to study, but it was a huge percentage on my bar exam and I took it. Yeah, I had a hard time with Texas, but ...

Matt (01:18:19):
Yeah. I know that there's certain bars, like the California bar-

Judge Mathew (01:18:24):
Is a tough one.

Matt (01:18:25):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:18:26):
Delaware bar is a tough one.

Matt (01:18:27):
Yeah. Right. And if you've had a license in California for like ... I don't remember what the actual amount of time was, but you can come to Texas and you don't even have to take the bar.

Judge Mathew (01:18:38):
Well, things have changed since then, meaning now you can take a bar for 35 states together or something like that.

Matt (01:18:44):
Really?

Judge Mathew (01:18:45):
Yeah. And so you don't have to take a state specific bar. I don't know all the processes. I do teach at UFH one class during the spring semester. I'm not teaching this spring because of my campaign.

Matt (01:18:57):
There's a campaign. What class do you teach?

Judge Mathew (01:18:59):
It's a strategic writing course, which helps them on the MPT section of the bar.

Matt (01:19:04):
So where is this? The U of H?

Judge Mathew (01:19:07):
U of H, University of Houston.

Matt (01:19:09):
They have a law school?

Judge Mathew (01:19:10):
Yes.

Matt (01:19:13):
Where did you go to school?

Judge Mathew (01:19:14):
Delaware.

Matt (01:19:15):
Oh, wow.

Judge Mathew (01:19:16):
Penn State undergrad.

Matt (01:19:18):
Wow.

Judge Mathew (01:19:19):
So long way from where I thought I would be in life, but yes. One of my regrets though, I have to say, is when I went to law school in Delaware, Biden was a senator for the state of Delaware, very small state. You can pretty much throw a stone and reach the end practically. He also taught at my law school legislative law. I knew he was going to go places. I should have just walked over to his office and said, May I volunteer? In 2002, that would have been a huge, in the early 2000s.

Matt (01:19:53):
Yeah, but who knows how that would have changed things?

Judge Mathew (01:19:57):
I mean, my trajectory of my life, yeah, I don't know. But that's my ... If I have to look back and if there are a moment that I was like regret, that would be it.

Matt (01:20:06):
Really?

Judge Mathew (01:20:07):
To be able to create or help on a national level or to implement policy or to change policy or to play a part would have been just an amazing opportunity.

Matt (01:20:19):
Have you always been Democratic in principle or like in philosophy?

Judge Mathew (01:20:26):
Yes.

Matt (01:20:28):
And what do you-

Judge Mathew (01:20:28):
No, I mean, I think my circumstances shaped it, right? Really? Things that I encountered in life shaped it. I've always been a bit ... So people have asked me, being a strong Christian, how come you're a Democrat? Why are you?

Matt (01:20:41):
That's a good question too.

Judge Mathew (01:20:42):
I've gotten asked that often, especially when I was running, but at the end of the day, I have to stand in front of Jesus. I am responsible for my actions. Why do I get to dictate what somebody else's personal choices are other than being a judge and when I have to implement and hold upon responsible, because that's my job.

Matt (01:21:05):
Yeah. I also think that there's a disconnect right there, right? Because you're not ... The meeting out of justice has nothing to do with your decision ultimately. There is weights and measures involved in action and consequence. And so I think it's funny when people are like, "Oh, this judge fucked me over or whatever." And it's like, "Well, you robbed that bank." So it'll be interesting. So this podcast is new for the first 20 episodes or recordings, because I think I only have 10 that are posted. For the first 20 actual conversations, it was all professionals in the treatment space, and I very quickly realized that this is a conversation that I don't want to have over and over and over for the rest of forever. And so I was like, "How am I going to expand this out? " I got a hold of a judge in Conroe and he's coming on and then I saw your badge and I was like, "Oh, another judge." And ultimately-

Judge Mathew (01:22:06):
And that's my jacket.

Matt (01:22:07):
Yeah, it was on your jacket.

Judge Mathew (01:22:09):
Yes.

Matt (01:22:11):
And so I followed you and you were talking to somebody, I was standing there. But yeah, you were pretty gracious about it. It was nice.

Judge Mathew (01:22:19):
Mean, I talk to everybody. I really do.

Matt (01:22:21):
I mean, it makes sense. You have to campaign to be a judge. That sounds so crazy. You have to campaign to be a judge here. How many states are like that?

Judge Mathew (01:22:34):
At least, I mean, there's a number, but I have to say, when I used to go up to people and ask them to vote for me, the first time I had nothing to lose, right?

Matt (01:22:44):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:22:45):
So I mean, I didn't care where they were, who they were, whatever. Walking down the street, I stopped people and I have gotten yelled at, screamed at, flat out rude to my face, no, all those type of things.

Matt (01:23:03):
Is Fort Bend like a red county?

Judge Mathew (01:23:06):
It was.

Matt (01:23:06):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:23:07):
Now it's more purple-ish, bluish.

Matt (01:23:09):
I imagine that makes it harder too.

Judge Mathew (01:23:11):
That was the first year that we had gone blue in 20 years or so. And the second time I ran, I was more cautious because being a sitting judge, then you have to think about safety concerns too. I wouldn't just go up

Matt (01:23:27):
Walk up to random people.

Judge Mathew (01:23:29):
Yeah. I mean, there's still a part of me. For example, the subdivision I live, it's a small subdivision, about 140 houses. And every neighbor I think tells people, "Oh, that's where the judge lives when they have visitors." And it's almost like, "Can we please stop telling people I live there?"

Matt (01:23:48):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:23:49):
And because I'm very hesitant to have people come to my house. I'm very hesitant about giving my home address out for anything.

Matt (01:23:57):
I mean, it makes sense. Did you see that video of that judge, that person jumped over the podium that she sentenced him or was going to sentence him and he ran and jumped over the podium and tackled her. Did you see that video?

Judge Mathew (01:24:16):
There's a bunch of stuff like that. Is it recent?

Matt (01:24:18):
I think it was within the last few months.

Judge Mathew (01:24:21):
No, I may not have seen that one. I saw one in the last year or two.

Matt (01:24:25):
It's maybe in the last year. He does a full flying jump over the thing and tackles her.

Judge Mathew (01:24:30):
Oh, I did not see that one.

Matt (01:24:32):
Oh, you got to see it. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen. And coming from my lens, I've been in that guy's shoes to understand his mindset and where he was at. I was like, "This guy's so crazy."

Judge Mathew (01:24:44):
I've only, I think, once how I felt kind of like, I don't like this person in front of me. I felt physically like this may not go well.

Matt (01:24:54):
Really?

Judge Mathew (01:24:55):
Yeah.

Matt (01:24:56):
Why?

Judge Mathew (01:24:57):
I think-

Matt (01:24:58):
Like you felt unsafe.

Judge Mathew (01:24:59):
I felt unsafe, but my bailiff is in the courtroom.

Matt (01:25:03):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:25:04):
And I have a great bailiff.

Matt (01:25:06):
That's always been an interesting relationship to me because I always ... Bailiffs, in California at least, they're walking you basically from your cell to the bench. And so you get to talk to these people or whatever, and it always seems like they are best friends with their judge. And my criminal career, it went from 18 to 30. And so I saw the same judges and the same bailiffs, and I would see when bailiffs would go to other judges and stuff like that, and they always seemed like best friends.

Judge Mathew (01:25:44):
I mean, my staff and I have a great relationship. I mean, at the end of the day, he works for the Sheriff's Department in Fort Bend County. And I mean, this is my third bailiff, I have to say. My first bailiff was older, was ready to retire. He retired. My second bailiff, we had some differences. He was very much ... I needed him more present, more active in the courtroom, and he wasn't as active in the courtroom. And this one exactly fits in the sense of somebody comes up, somebody approaches, he's right there. When I need to go somewhere, if in the courthouse, and it's during major ... If there's a lot of people in the hallway or something, and I was, "Hey, walk me to such and such." And so where I feel unsafe, he'll make sure that I'm taken care of in that sense. Walk me and I have to go qualify the jury, he escorts me.

Matt (01:26:41):
He's vigilant.

Judge Mathew (01:26:42):
Yeah.

Matt (01:26:44):
What is the significance of the black robe?

Judge Mathew (01:26:47):
It's a separation between you're shielding yourself in the sense of you're not ... I'm not Julie Matthew, the person. This is the law that I represent. So it's kind of taking away from your personal identity.

Matt (01:27:06):
Okay. Yeah. That blows my mind that they wouldn't wear it. That's pretty crazy.

Judge Mathew (01:27:12):
But a good friend of mine does that and I can't get him to see it otherwise. He's like, "I want them to connect with me. " And for me-

Matt (01:27:21):
What does he do primarily criminal stuff or something?

Judge Mathew (01:27:24):
He's primarily criminal and yeah, he does civil too.

Matt (01:27:27):
I could see how that is beneficial, but I also think that this is my opinion, right? You don't got to say anything, but my opinion is that the person in cuffs, the identification shouldn't be there anyway. There should be a separation.

Judge Mathew (01:27:46):
And also, when I wear the robe and sit on the bench, I think people are less likely to recognize me out and about possibly.

Matt (01:27:53):
I don't know about that.

Judge Mathew (01:27:55):
Because people, when I am out and about, at least when my hair pullback, which now I have made videos with my hair pulled back, which I probably shouldn't have, but when I'm out and about and I put on a baseball cap or I'm wearing my workout clothes. People don't recognize me and I want to be able to have that.

Matt (01:28:14):
You'd be surprised. There are judges, I'll never remember their name, but I definitely remember their face. And I've been sentenced to some pretty crazy stuff before. And the thing about it is from where we're sitting, we don't resent you in your capacity. We're never going to go target a judge. And I'm not saying that there haven't been plots to, but that was on some other-

Judge Mathew (01:28:40):
They've been judges killed.

Matt (01:28:42):
Yeah. But the average person that's going into that courtroom, the last thing that they're think ... You know who's been more dangerous is their public defender.

Judge Mathew (01:28:50):
Or the prosecutor. No?

Matt (01:28:52):
No, no. Typically, the public defender gets the brunt of that because they're the one that failed him. And so the prosecutor's doing their job. Now, there are organizations out there that will target those specific individuals, but the average person that's going in there ...

Judge Mathew (01:29:08):
I mean, I had some threats from a guy in Florida. I was like, "They should put you, what is it? Tie you down and shoot you in the head." And after watching a trial-

Matt (01:29:21):
Why in Florida?

Judge Mathew (01:29:22):
So there's a guy that monitors judges in courts, in law enforcement in Fort Bend, I think all over this area actually. So he had a trial in my court. It ended up being a mistrial and they made a video of it that they posted, but it's like a cartoon character judge. And it's the case itself, but people got traction and watched it. And so from that, I guess supposedly we're all against ... I don't know. It just was a strange case.

Matt (01:29:59):
Yeah, Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:30:00):
Interference with public duties is what that case was, but they recreated the case using a cartoon character, like South Park almost. That's what it felt like whenever I watched it.

Matt (01:30:13):
So they made it a satirical. Okay. Yeah. I always think it's strange when people ... I've actually rarely heard it where people are angry with the judge. At least from ... But you're

Judge Mathew (01:30:30):
Also dealing with mental health patients as well, right?

Matt (01:30:33):
Yeah, I guess. But I'm talking about from my experience.

Judge Mathew (01:30:36):
Because one of the judges in our court had somebody who had a mental health issue. He never came across him, never saw him. I think, I mean, when you're on the bench, you have a sea of people, right? So somewhere in the middle he was sitting or wherever he was sitting and his issue was with the judge.

Matt (01:30:52):
Yeah. Yeah. I could see that, like some kind of hyper fixation because of mental illness. I'm just saying that when you're sitting in jail cells, nobody's talking shit about the judge or the prosecutor. Everybody's talking about their public defender. Everybody. I mean, they call them dump trucks.

Judge Mathew (01:31:11):
I mean, I was there at the conference to learn. So any opportunity that I get to step away and go to a conference where I'm learning something-

Matt (01:31:20):
What did you learn?

Judge Mathew (01:31:21):
That conference was really eye-opening in regard to suicide.

Matt (01:31:25):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:31:26):
I mean, that speaker Hines, Mr. Hines was amazing.

Matt (01:31:30):
Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:31:34):
I mean, I need to be more mindful of the kids in front of me who really want to take ... And I've had several who wants to take their life.

Matt (01:31:44):
Yeah. There's a thin line between ... And unfortunately, it's like the ones who actually have intention to do it, they're never going to talk about it. It's the ones that are ... And I don't want to-

Judge Mathew (01:31:59):
No, we have had ones where they've tried it and ended up in the hospital. I don't know if I had one that have. We have had one kid in the system since I've been on the bench that have committed suicide, but the kid was not from my court.

Matt (01:32:11):
Yeah. It's a scary situation. But you know what else too though? I feel like fentanyl ...

Judge Mathew (01:32:22):
On my probate side, I had a young mother with three kids, triplets.

Matt (01:32:27):
Triplets.

Judge Mathew (01:32:28):
And her husband had died and we were probating the will. And at the end, I told the attorney who was handling the case to stay back because I was like, how does she have triplets a few months? And we're probating her husband's will. Turns out he was in the armed forces, got into addiction from the pain that he had from an injury, killed himself. I mean, not killed himself, fentanyl, killed him at a party.

Matt (01:32:58):
Yeah. I think that fentanyl is a situation. Historically, I slammed heroin for 17 years. And I think that fentanyl is a situation where people got to really look at that carefully because people are not intentionally killing themself with fentanyl, but there's a lot of question around, you understand that you're playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun. This isn't like if, this is when. Fentanyl will kill you.

Judge Mathew (01:33:31):
So this lady moved back home or moved to San Antonio with her parents who's helping her. And I remember her in her classroom. She's a teacher having to probate her husband's estate. And I felt horrible for her to have to take that on and to go for the rest of her life and deal with this consequences.

Matt (01:33:57):
Have you seen a rise in fentanyl cases?

Judge Mathew (01:34:01):
I don't per se come across them as much, but with the kids, maybe I had one last month, but I'm sure that's only because of them getting caught.

Matt (01:34:13):
Yeah. Yeah. Fentanyl's such a scary situation.

Judge Mathew (01:34:16):
And it could be anywhere. With my own children, I worry.

Matt (01:34:20):
And it's in everything. There aren't many verifiable cases around this, but even smoking weed can be a dangerous situation if you're ... The landscape of drug addiction and the landscape of drug, like the drug trade has changed drastically with the introduction of fentanyl to the drug supply. And ultimately what it translates into is there are a lot of ... It became the leading cause of death for people under 40 within two years of it hitting the market. 2019, it really hit 2021, leading cause of death for people under 40.

Judge Mathew (01:34:55):
So even with the kids in front of me that's like THC marijuana, I tell them, listen, your brain is developing. If you have all these mental health issues already and you're using, you're changing your brain and how you function as an adult, you got to stop.

Matt (01:35:13):
Yeah. The amount of harm that it ... So I started using drugs at a really young age, right? And maybe if I understood the amount of damage or the hindrance that I was causing to the development, especially we're talking about like the frontal lobe and you're talking about like control, like being able to have healthy, normal, stable thoughts is really what you're affecting because you're not affecting your fear center, you're not affecting your reactions. You're affecting your ability to make well-informed decisions. And when I look at the downstream effects of that, because right now, a lot of the work that we're doing, we're centering our focus on the amygdala and its interaction with the prefrontal cortex and understanding now how damaging drugs are to that whole part of that region of the brain, I don't know if it would've made a difference for me in the decisions that I made, but if I would've been better informed, I maybe might not have made such ... I was using crack and cocaine at a really, really young age. And so like I said-

Judge Mathew (01:36:28):
How did you have access to it?

Matt (01:36:30):
I lived in it. I'm from San Diego, California. I grew up in the '90s where it was like the height of the drug wars. It was everywhere. My dad was going through law school and he had, I think at the beginning of law school, he had five kids and at the end of law school, he had eight or he had five and then six, something like that. He had a lot of kids. And so there was still parental oversight, but a lot of it was punitive.

Judge Mathew (01:37:03):
That's what I feel like. Some of the kids that come in front of me, it's like they're doomed for failure because the families they're born into.

Matt (01:37:08):
Oh yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:37:09):
I've had kids raped by their own parent. I had kids just going through the worst of drama. One of the very first cases I had was a girl who was in the foster system, who was raped by her foster father, and then she had the child, and then the child was also in the system. So I mean, the amount of things that we see in court, I just realize how blessed I am every single day and how thankful I am.

Matt (01:37:46):
Yeah. When we talk about this specifically, and I'll try to dance around this so you don't have to say anything inappropriate, but really what I like to point to is the destruction of the family ultimately is where the first domino fell. And this was years and years and years ago around ... And I don't want to offend you either, but there were specific movements around ... Well, I'll tell you like this, today we look at masculinity, any kind of masculinity in a negative light. And so a man's ability to be a man in a healthy way is still hindered. And ultimately, when we're talking about the future of our country, we're completely lacking masculine and good, healthy men figures in most people's lives today. They've tracked outcomes for this. Over the last hundred years, the government has the hugest database on outcomes for children. And one of the things that I've heard recently that shocked me was that the outcomes for children who are raised at home with both biological parents, even if they are abusive, are massively, massively better than if you have a single parent.

(01:39:02):
So everybody, the majority of people today are being raised in single parent homes or at least a co-parenting situation where they're not living together. And I think this all goes back to marriage.

Judge Mathew (01:39:17):
So I have to tell you something. So this is my second marriage, and my first child at 10 months is when we separated. So I raised her and I was a single mother for five, six years before I remarried. And a lot of people told me she's going to fail. A lot of people told me she's not going to make it. And she's a very ... I mean, I'm sure she has trauma, but she's a thriving individual. And we are in situations and circumstances we do have to overcome. We do have to get over it. And these are like the trauma I went through, the trauma that she went through and you have to overcome. There's no other way. Life is hard. Life is difficult. There's nothing easy about it.

Matt (01:40:01):
Yeah. I think that she's fortunate to have a parent like you though. Most people are not-

Judge Mathew (01:40:05):
I don't know if she will say that, but ...

Matt (01:40:06):
Oh, okay. The facts are still the facts. You are not your average parent. The average parent that's out there right now is never going to do the things that you're doing or also be able to provide the future.

Judge Mathew (01:40:19):
I mean, I was at lowest points of my life during that whole thing being-

Matt (01:40:22):
I'm sure you were.

Judge Mathew (01:40:23):
Being Indian American, being Christian, having to face stigma, my community, we don't have divorces at that time, especially back in the day. And it was like, oh, she grew up here. She's American. She's a lawyer. It's her. She's crazy. It's all her. The community does not rally behind our females, does not stand behind. Thankfully-

Matt (01:40:46):
Yeah, for sure.

Judge Mathew (01:40:47):
Indian American community did not. And now, I mean, it's more prevalent, but still there's so many ... It's like shame. It's dishonor on the family. It's like all of those things that come being who I am because of our background, of our culture, our community that my parents hailed from where I hail from. And for me, when I ran for judge, that was also the thing that I'm like, I'm going to do this for females like me, for other people. I'm not going to let anyone or anything stop me. I think that was also my thing. I want this and I'm going to do it.

Matt (01:41:24):
Do you think that mostly it's a cultural deterrent to avoid divorce situations?

Judge Mathew (01:41:30):
Yes.

Matt (01:41:30):
Yeah. Do you think it's effective?

Judge Mathew (01:41:38):
When I look at people, people call me all the time like, "We're having this issue. We're having that. " I feel like really you're having this issue and this problem. That's the stupidest thing I heard is what I want to tell them. I mean, in some ways, I mean, a lot of the problems can be worked through if people were willing.

Matt (01:41:57):
Yeah, but we are not taught how to be healthy communicators anymore either. And I think that a lot of the relationship breakdowns that happen today are simply that we don't know how to communicate anymore and it's getting worse.

Judge Mathew (01:42:13):
I mean, all of us have to work at it.

Matt (01:42:15):
Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think having intention around healthy communication is a massive barrier because nobody ever puts a premium on it.

Judge Mathew (01:42:26):
When I look back upon my life, I could have done this differently. I could have done that differently. I could have said this to her. She was in the middle of some of the battles I had with her dad and it's like, "Why did I do that? "

Matt (01:42:40):
Was he Indian American as well?

Judge Mathew (01:42:41):
Yes.

Matt (01:42:42):
Okay. Yeah.

Judge Mathew (01:42:42):
He was my mom's best friend's son.

Matt (01:42:45):
Oh, wow. So you guys were like-

Judge Mathew (01:42:46):
They grew up together. My mom and her grew up together.

Matt (01:42:50):
So you guys were kind of nudged down that road?

Judge Mathew (01:42:52):
No, I had an interest in him. And whenever we went for vacations, I would see him. And he's a great person, but just was not the husband I needed. So anyway, that's that.

Matt (01:43:06):
Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you for coming and-

Judge Mathew (01:43:11):
Thank you for having me.

Matt (01:43:12):
Good luck in your campaign.

Judge Mathew (01:43:13):
I appreciate it.

Matt (01:43:17):
Thanks for listening to My Last Relapse. I'm Matt Handy, the founder of Harmony Grove Behavioral Health, Houston, Texas, where our mission is to provide compassionate, evidence-based care for anyone facing addiction, mental health challenges, and co-occurring disorders. Find out more at harmonygrovebh.com. Follow and subscribe to my last relapse on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you like to stream podcasts. Got a question for us? Leave a message or voicemail at mylastrelapse.com. If you're feeling overwhelmed or struggling, you don't have to face it alone. Reaching out for support is a sign of strength and help is always available. If you or anyone you know needs help, give us a call 24 hours a day at 888-691-8295.